# What will the future automobile be powered by? **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [May 20, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722 "2013-05-20T11:33:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/21 "2013-05-20T17:40:49Z")
1. Think bumper cars. (What is the answer to lack of battery life? Constant or almost constant energy supply.) 2. Think weight/mass. (Currently virtually all of the energy to transport people is used to move the vehicle.) Oh and We won’t physically run out of oil. It will be a million dollars a barrel long before we run out so it will just sit there unused by most. Demand will stop before supply stops for one of many reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Deathproof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@Deathproof](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Deathproof)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/22 "2013-05-20T20:53:50Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > I think hybrids are just a stop gap measure. The complexity of their almost dual drive systems and continued reliance on oil makes them hard to see as a true long term solution. > > Pure electric vehicles will be part of the solution, especially in 2 car families, but there are major technical hurdles to overcome regarding battery longevity when you start approaching consumer acceptable charge times for long road trips (5 minutes from empty to 90+% capacity). Some journalist might find it acceptable to take an hour break to hang out at a coffee bar while his Tesla recharges to get from NYC to DC but the average driver is going to stick with his 5 minute gas stop. Battery and capacitor advances might solve this hurdle but it’s definitely not a simple engineering problem. > > What we have an abundance of is water. If anything with the threat of rising sea levels we’ve got too much of it. My bet is on fuel cells for the long term, with the hydrogen coming first from the falling natural gas prices fracking is causing and then as demand picks up advances in nuclear power and electrolysis methods. We already have the tech to fill a car sized fuel cell tank from empty to full in 4 minutes. We already have the tech to add hydrogen production to existing nuclear plants using the steam and electricity they currently produce. > > CNG vehicles will probably make up a decent portion as well but even with increased natural gas supplies there simply isn’t enough to replace oil in our vehicle fleets and still heat our homes with it. Why the fuck would you wait to get your battery charged? Do you do that when your remote needs new batteries? Interchangeable batteries that could be changed in minutes at charging stations seems the only way to make long distance electric car travel infrastructure work. ---
**Author:** ![brilliantyellowg60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6f9a4e/32.png) [@brilliantyellowg60](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/brilliantyellowg60)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/23 "2013-05-21T05:01:28Z")
If NIF ever works things will change drastically i say electric, but then you run into the material requirements for batteries and the toll it takes on the world to mine them ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 5:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/24 "2013-05-21T05:16:51Z")
> [@Deathproof](#): > > Why the fuck would you wait to get your battery charged? Do you do that when your remote needs new batteries? > > Interchangeable batteries that could be changed in minutes at charging stations seems the only way to make long distance electric car travel infrastructure work. I’m picturing the volume of cars that fill up at a typical thruway service station on a busy holiday and I just can’t see how this would work without massive warehouses of batteries to swap. And the power requirements to fast charge means you wouldn’t be hooking 100’s of them up at once to fast charge. ---
**Author:** ![somedude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@somedude](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/somedude)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 5:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/25 "2013-05-21T05:31:54Z")
I have never really understood why diesel electric hybrids have not hit the market yet. The way a diesel engine operates makes it far superior to a gas engine as a generator. ---
**Author:** ![drvnkd](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/drvnkd/32/109615_2.png) [@drvnkd](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/drvnkd)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/26 "2013-05-21T06:51:18Z")
Electric cars are the way to go. Hydrogen fuel cells could help, but nobody is going to put in anything even close to the infrastructure we have for other fuels. 5 years ago, I was working on what was to be a parking space sized steam methane reformer. There was/is almost zero market for such a device. Those that exist for refelling purposes are used for PR. We will have to solve the transportation problem long before we exhaust fissile fuels. They make the manufacturing world possible. ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/27 "2013-05-21T07:07:13Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > I’m picturing the volume of cars that fill up at a typical thruway service station on a busy holiday and I just can’t see how this would work without massive warehouses of batteries to swap. And the power requirements to fast charge means you wouldn’t be hooking 100’s of them up at once to fast charge. yep, I’ve thought about this in the past. Unless the sizes were dramatically reduced, or they charged fast enough that you only needed to keep a small amount on hand, it’s pretty unfeasible. ---
**Author:** ![Deathproof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@Deathproof](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Deathproof)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/28 "2013-05-21T18:53:32Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > I’m picturing the volume of cars that fill up at a typical thruway service station on a busy holiday and I just can’t see how this would work without massive warehouses of batteries to swap. And the power requirements to fast charge means you wouldn’t be hooking 100’s of them up at once to fast charge. Yeah there would have to be hundreds of batteries charging, even if it took hours, which would probably be better for longevity, you could still have a system where cars could be in and out in minutes. This would of course require significant infrastructure. Installing tanks for gasoline is expensive, and maintaining them so you don’t get killed in EPA fines is also quite expensive. ---
**Author:** ![BadnewsMike](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/badnewsmike/32/7419_2.png) [@BadnewsMike](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BadnewsMike)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/29 "2013-05-21T20:36:48Z")
> [@somedude](#): > > I have never really understood why diesel electric hybrids have not hit the market yet. The way a diesel engine operates makes it far superior to a gas engine as a generator. > **[Volvo V60 plug-in diesel hybrid: production of the world’s only plug-in...](https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/volvo-v60-plug-in-diesel-hybrid-production-of-the-worlds-only-plug-in-diesel-to-increase-tenfold/)** > > Volvo had only planned to build 1,000 V60 plug-in diesel hybrids per year. Why is this not HERE? ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/30 "2013-05-22T03:19:09Z")
Because this… Costing around $77,000 in the U.K., the plug-in diesel is expensive but the model allows European drivers to avoid so many extra government taxes and fees, buyers are more than willing to shell out the asking price. ---
**Author:** ![TORQDSS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/torqdss/32/5125_2.png) [@TORQDSS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TORQDSS)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/31 "2013-05-22T06:07:07Z")
> [@Blue Eyed Devil](#): > > Because this… > > Costing around $77,000 in the U.K., the plug-in diesel is expensive but the model allows European drivers to avoid so many extra government taxes and fees, buyers are more than willing to shell out the asking price. I must agree here. My Volt was $42500 MSRP and in 7,400 miles I have used around 40 gallons of gas (might be a little less) so despite the price I would save money even if I bought it. Not to mention if I bought it and not leased it I would have gotten a $8,000 tax credit. The cost of the vehicle has to be a factor for mass purchasing otherwise only the very wealthy who don’t care what the MSRP is will buy it and it won’t have an effect on saving the environment. We need millions of people to be driving cars that save the planet. JayS… what are your thoughts on the environmental cost of production vs. vehicle efficiency? I firmly believe my Volt is an awesome car but how many gallons of gas do I need to save to outweigh the production and disposal of the massive battery pack I sit on every day? ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/32 "2013-05-22T06:11:12Z")
I remember a guy saying his 57 Chevy is more planet friendly than the production of a Prius. Funny but maybe true. Especially for the guy who is on his third Prius. lol ---
**Author:** ![TORQDSS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/torqdss/32/5125_2.png) [@TORQDSS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TORQDSS)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/33 "2013-05-22T06:40:11Z")
> [@Blue Eyed Devil](#): > > I remember a guy saying his 57 Chevy is more planet friendly than the production of a Prius. Funny but maybe true. Especially for the guy who is on his third Prius. lol Considering every ounce of that vehicle can be recycled I would bet that is true. ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/34 "2013-05-22T06:48:46Z")
> [@TORQDSS](#): > > I must agree here. My Volt was $42500 MSRP and in 7,400 miles I have used around 40 gallons of gas (might be a little less) so despite the price I would save money even if I bought it. Not to mention if I bought it and not leased it I would have gotten a $8,000 tax credit. The cost of the vehicle has to be a factor for mass purchasing otherwise only the very wealthy who don’t care what the MSRP is will buy it and it won’t have an effect on saving the environment. We need millions of people to be driving cars that save the planet. > > JayS… what are your thoughts on the environmental cost of production vs. vehicle efficiency? I firmly believe my Volt is an awesome car but how many gallons of gas do I need to save to outweigh the production and disposal of the massive battery pack I sit on every day? You still have to own the car for a somewhat extended period of time to get the savings. It costs about $2,000 a year to put gas in my civic. So it would take a considerable amount of time to get back the $15,000 difference. Now, a brand new volt probably compares more to a brand new accord in terms of features, but the volt is probably still a $10k premium, which means you’ve got to be in the Volt for 5 years to break even, and THEN you start making money back. Assuming equal resale. Those are rough numbers, but the reality is that there isn’t as much savings there as you think there is. Of course, consumer money savings isn’t really the only factor behind the movement to ditch OIL, but it certainly matters to the people buying the cars and fueling them. ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/35 "2013-05-22T06:54:21Z")
^^ Also consider that often the difference in cost is financed, further increasing the value gap / term until “break even.” ---
**Author:** ![Spam16v](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/spam16v/32/5287_2.png) [@Spam16v](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Spam16v)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/36 "2013-05-22T07:02:42Z")
X will never =0,the cost will go up so much that no one will be able to afford it and force change as the market shifts. So saying we will run out of every last drop is false ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/37 "2013-05-22T07:13:01Z")
> [@TORQDSS](#): > > JayS… what are your thoughts on the environmental cost of production vs. vehicle efficiency? I firmly believe my Volt is an awesome car but how many gallons of gas do I need to save to outweigh the production and disposal of the massive battery pack I sit on every day? Well “disposal” is an ugly term. The components in that battery are hard enough to come by that the majority of it will almost certainly get recycled. For the current and near future demand where electrics and hybrids will make up a small percentage it’s probably not an issue. There were horror stories of a few battery component mines being ecologic disasters but the need for electric cars to be marketed as green made car manufactures force these plants to clean up or the manufactures would go elsewhere. I think where people are being naive is when they don’t consider the scale of the issue. The amount of energy we use every day powering motor vehicles in industrial nations is astonishing. In the US alone we use almost 7 BILLION barrels of oil a year, and almost half of that is used to make gasoline. It’s why I laugh when I see suggestions like, “Oh we’ll just stock lots of batteries at fueling stations and swap them out like the batteries in your TV remote”. Ok, but there are 240 million vehicles on the road in the US. The typical gas station will carry between 6k to 10k gallons of fuel to keep those cars zipping along. All that storage space though is underground, and 100% of it is used to store the actual energy source. Change that source to batteries and now each battery has to be accessible, and each pack is a huge waste of space by comparison because the battery is mostly packaging with only part of it’s overall volume being the actual energy source. Think giant warehouse at every gas station, except gas stations don’t have room for giant warehouses. Then there’s charging them. “We’ll just have 100’s of them charging at once on fast chargers at every gas station so we can just swap them out faster than a gas fillup”. Really? Telsa’s fast home charger is a 70 amp beast that requires a 90 amp breaker and still takes 4 hours to charge. No gas station has the option of upgrading to 7000 amp service. You’re talking about more power consumption than most factories, except now that power is at every big gas station? Hello rolling blackouts. ---
**Author:** ![focusinprogress](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/focusinprogress/32/7227_2.png) [@focusinprogress](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/focusinprogress)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/38 "2013-05-22T07:22:04Z")
JayS is right, electric-only cars are simply NEVER going to be useful for anything other than standard commuting or running errands around town. What if you want to take a vacation, and DRIVE there…I really think if they could figure out how to make hydrogen use less dangerous that’s the way to go. It’s the only other “fuel” that could be stored similar to gasoline and have filling stations besides ethanol…and with the cost of ethanol vs. it’s efficiency, I think hyrogen would be the best bang-for-buck ---
**Author:** ![fairgentleman\_Z](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fairgentleman_z/32/7263_2.png) [@fairgentleman\_Z](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fairgentleman_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/39 "2013-05-22T07:32:38Z")
Bio Diesel? I know that ecoshardcore is converting his TDi Jetta to run on boiled down Dolphin fat. I’m sure that other aquatic mammals would be a prime source of biodiesel. ---
**Author:** ![drvnkd](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/drvnkd/32/109615_2.png) [@drvnkd](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/drvnkd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722/40 "2013-05-22T08:58:33Z")
You will not get anywhere burning Hydrogen for fuel. A fuel cell will be required to make the electricity and drive or recharge as needed. Maybe there will be some H2 rich material that can be refined and transported for profit. Hydrogen is tricky to play with in the industrial world let alone turn it loose on the general public. I’m sure everyone would love the NY Hydrogen inspection that would inevitably be required, where every seal and weld in the supply system will need to be tested annually. I’m not familiar with the actual plumbing requirements of a fuel cell car, but I’m guessing the demos have air monitors to check for leaks. I use CO monitors on all my H2 systems, because they sense the H2 long before there is a chance to sense the LEL (lower explisove limit) in an area. Are there any special DMV test’s required for CNG cars/buses? [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-will-the-future-automobile-be-powered-by/230722.md?page=3)