# What's wrong with autox??? **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [June 2, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407 "2008-06-02T13:19:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![rushman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@rushman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/rushman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/141 "2008-06-03T11:56:07Z")
We could if the scca would sanction/insure it, thats the real question. There may be ‘turf’ issues between scca and FIA as well, who sanctions ‘autoslalom’ events in canada. Do they have a large paved lot? An AX on a track raises some issues with sanction approval, since the walls and other things can make it tough to design a course that meets the distance to hard object rules. ---
**Author:** ![MXS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mxs/32/7507_2.png) [@MXS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MXS)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/142 "2008-06-03T11:58:15Z")
Sounds like a site for a Solo Trial (formerly Solo I) event which is a different kind of animal. IIRC, Cory asked our RE a couple years ago about the possibility of using Dunnville for that, and I don’t think there is any rule about not running in Canada. That’s just what I remember off the top of my head, though. ---
**Author:** ![sureshot007](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/sureshot007/32/7345_2.png) [@sureshot007](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/sureshot007)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/143 "2008-06-03T12:21:23Z")
> [@sureshot!](#): > > Perrin isn’t allowed to cross the border because of too many unpaid speeding tickets on the QEW, lmao. :snky: I am all for Solo Trials at Dunnville. ---
**Author:** ![MrSmith](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mrsmith/32/5254_2.png) [@MrSmith](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MrSmith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/144 "2008-06-03T13:44:49Z")
I have been going to a few events every year for the past 5 years. As others have said the lack of seat time/other things to do on a sunday/dont want to get up in the morning/ect all contribute to not going more often. Its fun to go out and run an event or two but I am not into it enough to come out for every event. I personally don’t have a problem with the gas prices or the entry fee. Then again i don’t attend more than 2 events a year. One more thing… last year at the ecc event I saw a person who was “down” with the guys running the event show up late. Registration was already closed. I didnt see the car go through tech and he jumped right in with us. I even heard the person bragging about not having to work because he knew everyone. Needless to say I wasnt too happy when I was doing my work assignments. ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/145 "2008-06-03T13:58:21Z")
> [@dp2387](#): > > I’ve always thought that the “too early” excuse was pretty lame…snip you’re either a morning person, or not. I struggle to get up every day during the week no matter what time I go to bed, managing to push my wakeup time to 815 in order to be in my office downtown by 9 by doing everything the night before. Sure as shit, every weekend night I’m in bed at 4am or later and roll out about 1 in the afternoon. It’s bad enough that morning people control the working world, I refuse to support their extracurricular activities. Not saying you should change your whole annual schedule and screw the people that like it in the morning, but 1 event a year at a decent time would be an interesting trial approach to see how it worked out. ---
**Author:** ![fairgentleman\_Z](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fairgentleman_z/32/7263_2.png) [@fairgentleman\_Z](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fairgentleman_Z)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/146 "2008-06-03T14:49:52Z")
> [@Rx3](#): > > Another point: IMHO, auto-x seemed to be designed to get people interested in motorsports. That may not be the case now, with all the Pro Solo events, National Competitions, sponsorships etc. going on now. However if you really think about it, the original intention seemed to be: provide an entry INTO motorsports, and give them tools to MOVE UP. So in auto-x, the costs are supposed to be low, while giving you an opportunity to develop some skills. Once you start getting comfortable, your competitive desire should push you to the next level. The TRACK. Let’s be honest, the SCCA really wants more CLUB racers. SOLO II is supposed to be for fun and learning, but with all the pro-solo and other things, the fun factor for those new to motorsports is being lost because new participants feel they need to spend a ton of $$$$$$ on tires and who knows what else to be competitive. I think the original version was to keep costs down and learning up in Solo II, and then let the competitive burning of your wallet happen when you progressed to the club or pro racing of your choice. That isn’t happening. You’ve got a lot of club racing series dying out or weakening because their is no substantial influx of new talent and ambition. A lot of people are staying in the SOLO II ranks and competing there instead. I’ve seen some of the cars in the SCCA magazines and at some of the events. For the money these people spend, they could easily have a club race car with money left over and go club racing at the track. Great point. The only reson I got into club racing was because NASA use to have the SE-R cup. Google was a better resource for racing information/getting involved than this regions Sr. Guard. > [@Rx3](#): > > This is a slightly misleading statement. If you are implying that auto-x is more intense than regular track days, then you are doing something wrong. > > They are equally intense, and I’d say the track stuff is more intense simply because unlike auto-x, the speeds cannot be as controlled strictly. There is a lot more potential for speed, danger, and risk when at the track (depending on the event) and those three things together will amplify intensity. > > Now maybe your thing is “relaxing” at the track, and you’re only driving at 5/10ths or 6/10ths of your ability and enjoying your car. Nothing wrong with that, it’s cool. Do what you like. But don’t pass that off as the track being less intense. Also intensity will vary for different people. What I may think is intense in terms of speed or difficulty may be boring for a hotshoe like you. 😉 Agree/disagree. I’m willing to bet most that go to dunville are avoiding the 10/10ths driving (because of the relatively few 11/10ths incidents 🙂 ) IMO getting to that 10/10ths level is much more achievable in a sea of cones. But, if people are happy then w/e. > [@JayS](#): > > Ok, so why not? It’s a regional thing right, so why couldn’t you say 300+ treadwear in your street tire class? F— that. I was thinking of something like that during the commute… Used snow tire class. I’m sure that there are tons of stealies in the junk yard, and tons of 2/32 snow tires @ Fox and other tire places. ---
**Author:** ![sureshot007](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/sureshot007/32/7345_2.png) [@sureshot007](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/sureshot007)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/147 "2008-06-03T14:53:14Z")
I had also considered the snow tire class, as it seems everyone (including me) is still on snows when the first event rolls around. ---
**Author:** ![Bigairskier1580](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bigairskier1580/32/7612_2.png) [@Bigairskier1580](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bigairskier1580)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/148 "2008-06-03T15:10:07Z")
I agree with Jim (Chino) and get some advertisement in some way. Even if it is just a photo with a small caption in the news. You need to reach new drivers as many of us older drivers have other things going on where we cannot make it to most if any events. ---
**Author:** ![intense98rt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@intense98rt](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/intense98rt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/149 "2008-06-03T17:56:33Z")
You want new drivers. New drivers don’t care about season points. They just want seat time. Why not give the novice class more runs. How about 12? Let them do 4 runs back to back, take a break, 4 runs, work, 4 runs… ---
**Author:** ![CONEVADR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@CONEVADR](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/CONEVADR)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/150 "2008-06-03T18:55:11Z")
> [@dp2387](#): > > so I’m wondering if even dividing up instructors by skill level would be helpful. I think FLR tried something like this a few years ago but it fizzled out. Not sure about a few years ago, but I think you are right - something like “green” Novices, “red” Novices, and so forth. We also talked about it as I took over the FLR Novice program last year. We decided that newer people really don’t want to be classified that way, they just want to learn. We’re trying to do a little more mentoring this year with keeping returning Novices working more with the same Instructor where possible. If you want Novices to stick around, they have to feel like you want them to be there, and they have to feel like they are part of the action. If they didn’t already come to the event with someone, then it helps for them to have someone to latch onto. We also encourage the Novices to ride along with the Instructors. This is a very interesting thread - people in both regions are listening. All viewpoints are important - don’t be shy. George M ---
**Author:** ![SoraNezumi](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/soranezumi/32/5057_2.png) [@SoraNezumi](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SoraNezumi)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/151 "2008-06-03T19:24:28Z")
Going back to advertising… Both WNY and FLR are sponsored by local companies, wouldn’t it be possible to have events “sponsored by xxx and xxx” in local papers. The space in the add. for sponsors (for a small fee) could be enough to pay for the add. Just thinking. ---
**Author:** ![intense98rt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@intense98rt](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/intense98rt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/152 "2008-06-03T19:40:55Z")
Another thing that WNY might be able to try. Down here with CCR, they have a night series in addition to the regular events. Once a month on a thursday they have an event. Setup 4:00 PM Registration 5:00 PM - 6:30 PM Tech Inspection 5:30 PM - 6:45 PM Drivers Meeting 6:45 PM First car Out 7:00 PM They also have 12hour charity events. I think it was on a saturday. They have 2 registrations. The first one is at the normal time around 9. Then the second one will be around noon. You can run as many times as you want. There are no groups you get put into. You can leave early if you want, unless your in the late work group. and advertising would be a good idea. A guy made this to try and get more people interested in ccr autoX [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tjl\_u4qTkM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tjl_u4qTkM) ---
**Author:** ![99\_civic\_si](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/99_civic_si/32/7319_2.png) [@99\_civic\_si](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/99_civic_si)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/153 "2008-06-03T20:40:42Z")
> [@fairgentleman Z](#): > > Agree/disagree. I’m willing to bet most that go to dunville are avoiding the 10/10ths driving (because of the relatively few 11/10ths incidents 🙂 ) > > IMO getting to that 10/10ths level is much more achievable in a sea of cones. > > But, if people are happy then w/e. Nail head, meet Hammer. You got it. Goes with what I was saying before, they are two completely different beasts that can’t rightfully be compared. If I pushed my hatch on a road course to test the limits of it like I have during auto-x, my car would be a mangled fucking mess right now and I’d likely be dead. Very few of us on this whole damn forum have a car prepped safely enough to be “pushing it” at any track day. Please please tell me how the hell you will ever find the limits of your car till you slide it off the track a few times? In auto-x, I do it all the time 🙂 Very useful tool when changing setups on your car. The timing parts helps big time to see what “driving style” and line is faster. ---
**Author:** ![Garick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8797f3/32.png) [@Garick](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Garick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/154 "2008-06-03T20:49:15Z")
I don’t know how the novice experience is currently but just some general thoughts on the subject. IMO, a novice should never have to ask for an instructor before a run. Instead of them asking for help experienced drivers could be pro actively giving help both in driving and working. Maybe we could look into something like assigning instructors to a group/class/some number of people. Even things as simple as more stuff covered in the drivers meetings, they’ve gotten pretty brief. Things can get pretty heated and stressful at times as well, nobody wants to be yelled at while they are out to have a good time. Understand that people may really not know what to do. ---
**Author:** ![Fry](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fry/32/7284_2.png) [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/155 "2008-06-04T06:56:49Z")
My experience as a novice was last year. First time autocrossing was the first event at NCCC. It was fine. I knew who a couple of people were so I just introduced myself and they took care of me. I never had trouble getting an instructor to hop into the car. It probably wasn’t until my 4th run that I decided to try it alone. Having that big “N” on the side of your car helps a lot. Towards the end of the summer there were a couple of events I could have gone to but didn’t. I just didn’t want to spend the whole Sunday there. That’s not really a criticism, it’s just the way it is. Just throwing that out there. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Quattro\_Krant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ac91a4/32.png) [@Quattro\_Krant](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Quattro_Krant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/156 "2008-06-04T07:38:20Z")
aI didn’t read the other previous 7 pages of text so if this has been said before I appologize. Personally, Auto-X is **BORING** as all hell!!! Driving around in parking lots is right up there with being on a conference call for 3 hours discussing corporate policies. Now, if we were doing Auto-x in winter with a foot of snow on the ground, HELL YEA!!! I don’t know if it is just the courses up here or what but they just don’t do it for me. I find track days SO much more fun, the $:drive time can not be beat. ---
**Author:** ![sureshot](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/sureshot/32/7578_2.png) [@sureshot](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/sureshot)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 7:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/157 "2008-06-04T07:52:16Z")
> [@Quattro Krant](#): > > aI didn’t read the other previous 7 pages of text so if this has been said before I appologize. Personally, Auto-X is **BORING** as all hell!!! Driving around in parking lots is right up there with being on a conference call for 3 hours discussing corporate policies. Now, if we were doing Auto-x in winter with a foot of snow on the ground, HELL YEA!!! I don’t know if it is just the courses up here or what but they just don’t do it for me. I find track days SO much more fun, the $:drive time can not be beat. Wow, everyone has their own opinions, but I can’t believe someone would call driving at auto-x boring. I want to ask if you have ever even done it before, and if so, what terrible thing happened there that jaded you so much to the point that you’d hate it, but I won’t. I agree with whomever said something about getting the sport up in the news etc. I still believe whoring out bulletins and flyers at the different universities would be a good idea. Why not have FSAE slap a shitload of flyers up on UB’s million poster boards? ---
**Author:** ![sureshot007](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/sureshot007/32/7345_2.png) [@sureshot007](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/sureshot007)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 7:53am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/158 "2008-06-04T07:53:45Z")
> [@Quattro Krant](#): > > Now, if we were doing Auto-x in winter with a foot of snow on the ground, HELL YEA!!! It’s called RallyX, so look for the event postings in the Motorsports forum. ---
**Author:** ![chino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@chino](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/chino)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/159 "2008-06-04T08:08:45Z")
> [@intense98rt](#): > > Another thing that WNY might be able to try. Down here with CCR, they have a night series in addition to the regular events. Once a month on a thursday they have an event. > Setup 4:00 PM > Registration 5:00 PM - 6:30 PM > Tech Inspection 5:30 PM - 6:45 PM > Drivers Meeting 6:45 PM > First car Out 7:00 PM > > They also have 12hour charity events. I think it was on a saturday. They have 2 registrations. The first one is at the normal time around 9. Then the second one will be around noon. You can run as many times as you want. There are no groups you get put into. You can leave early if you want, unless your in the late work group. > > and advertising would be a good idea. A guy made this to try and get more people interested in ccr autoX [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tjl\_u4qTkM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tjl_u4qTkM) special stage autocross - i like it 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jrod0187](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@jrod0187](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jrod0187)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407/160 "2008-06-04T08:08:46Z")
I checked out the calendar for the next **local** auto x, ECC and its Sept. 7th? So the season’s already done for me if I don’t want to attend SEAD? [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whats-wrong-with-autox/49407.md?page=9)