# Whiteline Sway Bars Adjustable Endlinks Question **URL:** \ **Category:** SON240sx Automotive\ **Created:** [April 15, 2004, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875 "2004-04-15T12:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/1 "2004-04-15T12:03:36Z")
![http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/toyota/pdmlinks3.jpg](http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/imag/toyota/pdmlinks3.jpg) Shown on the picture above on Whiteline Swaybars they have 3 predrilled holes up front and 2 predrilled holes out back for stiffness adjustability. Now my question is which hole would be the stiffest. Thinking physically interns of leverage many people seem to think the Inner holes would be the stiffest. But are sway bars not suppose to reduce body roll (sway) by forcing the outer tire up with the inner tire to level out the car? So should you not put the endlinks on the furthest setting (outer most hole) to increase the leverage of the bar to make it easier to lift the outer wheel? I’m extremely confused on this whole issue here with Swaybars could someone please straighten this all out for me and I’m sure many others. ---
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/2 "2004-04-15T12:06:28Z")
Infromation Found on [Howstuffworks.com](http://Howstuffworks.com) How do stabilizer bars work? Stabilizer bars are part of a car’s suspension system. They are sometimes also called anti-sway bars or anti-roll bars. Their purpose in life is to try to keep the car’s body from “rolling” in a sharp turn. Think about what happens to a car in a sharp turn. If you are inside the car, you know that your body gets pulled toward the outside of the turn. The same thing is happening to all the parts of the car. So the part of the car on the outside of the turn gets pushed down toward the road and the part of the car on the inside of the turn rises up. In other words, the body of the car “rolls” 10 or 20 or 30 degrees toward the outside of the turn. If you take a turn fast enough, the tires on the inside of the turn actually rise off the road and the car flips over. Roll is bad. It tends to put more weight on the outside tires and less weigh on the inside tires, reducing traction. It also messes up steering. What you would like is for the body of the car to remain flat through a turn so that the weight stays distributed evenly on all four tires. A stabilizer bar tries to keep the car’s body flat by moving force from one side of the body to another. To picture how a stabilizer bar works, imagine a metal rod that is an inch or two (2 to 5 cm) in diameter. If your front tires are 5 feet (1.6 meters) apart, make the rod about 4 feet long. Attach the rod to the frame of the car in front of the front tires, but attach it with bushings in such a way that it can rotate. Now attach arms from the rod to the front suspension member on both sides. When you go into a turn now, the front suspension member of the outside of the turn gets pushed upward. The arm of the sway bar gets pushed upward, and this applies torsion to the rod. The torsion them moves the arm at the other end of the rod, and this causes the suspension on the other side of the car to compress as well. The car’s body tends to stay flat in the turn. If you don’t have a stabilizer bar, you tend to have a lot of trouble with body roll in a turn. If you have too much stabilizer bar, you tend to lose independence between the suspension members on both sides of the car. When one wheel hits a bump, the stabilizer bar transmits the bump to the other side of the car as well, which is not what you want. The ideal is to find a setting that reduces body roll but does not hurt the independence of the tires. ---
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/3 "2004-04-15T12:12:45Z")
Check out [http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=question432.htm&url=http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/Swabarra.html](http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=question432.htm&url=http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/Swabarra.html) For Information on SWAY BAR RATE INCREASE BY DIAMETER. ---
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/4 "2004-04-15T12:21:43Z")
> [@FrEaK](#): > > Inner holes are the stiffest… Says who and why? ---
**Author:** ![Jonweir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f14d63/32.png) [@Jonweir](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jonweir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/5 "2004-04-15T12:45:17Z")
> [@SHIFT\_SR20DET](#): > > [quote=FrEaK]Inner holes are the stiffest… Says who and why?[/quote] The sway bar transfers a fraction of the load by torsion. The amount transferred is determined by the deflection. The outer holes have a longer moment arm about the pivot, so deflection is greater and less is transferred. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_SG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/sasha_sg/32/5477_2.png) [@Sasha\_SG](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Sasha_SG)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/6 "2004-04-15T12:52:29Z")
Ok look its like this. The suspension acts on the sway bar. The sway bar torsions when opposing forces are acted upon it obvioulsy (passenger side suspension compresses, driver side extends) or if the suspension raises / lowers togehter (i.e. when you launch forward) the sway bar will not tension it will simply slide in its Dlinks. Now assume you put a bar bolted to the chassis against the susension with the same layout as a sway bar, but it has unlimited resistance to torsion. Your suspension components would ALWAYS move together, so most likely you would have hardly any compression on corners and the inside tire would most likely raise of the ground simply from chassis flex, just like a go-kart. The suspension applies a FORCE on the sway bar. The farther from the point of pivot the force is applied, the more leverage is created, and thus more torque applied on the swaybar. If you apply the force close to the pivot point, or basically where the bar is bent and where it torsions - the torque will be less than if placed it far away. Higher torque on the bar = more twisting of the bar. More twisting of the bar means more opposing suspension movement, in other words more sway. You’re thinking of it backwards, the sway bar does not apply a force on the suspension, the suspension applies a force on the sway bar. I think thats why you are confused… But i could also be totally wrong this has always been my understanding of it… ---
**Author:** ![AnDrEw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AnDrEw](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/AnDrEw)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/7 "2004-04-15T13:46:23Z")
> [@Jonweir](#): > > [quote=SHIFT\_SR20DET][quote=FrEaK]Inner holes are the stiffest… Says who and why?[/quote] The sway bar transfers a fraction of the load by torsion. The amount transferred is determined by the deflection. The outer holes have a longer moment arm about the pivot, so deflection is greater and less is transferred. Right?[/quote] Ok your post is confusing even for me. Are you trying to say that because it has a larger deflection, that less torsion is transfered through the bar because it has a larger moment arm? Some reason that doesn’t make sense to me. Crap I should draw up a bloody beam situation and do the calculations. But I don’t have time. If you want me to in 2 weeks we can talk. Stupid exams :x ---
**Author:** ![boMex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@boMex](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boMex)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/8 "2004-04-15T14:56:26Z")
Adam, Long Lever Arm = Soft o o o=== ^ Short Lever Arm = Hard o o o=== …^ ---
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/9 "2004-04-15T18:14:09Z")
> [@boMex](#): > > Adam, > Long Lever Arm = Soft > o o o=== > ^ > > Short Lever Arm = Hard > o o o=== > …^ That’s what I thought originally but would the suspension not have to work harder to transfer the energy though the bar with it being closer to the pivot point? Like why do we use a 2 foot bar instead of a 1 foot bar to torque down a bolt? Because with longer leverage it makes it easier to transfer energy. This is why I am so confused. Is not the point of a sway bar to transfer the energy being pushed up on the suspension by the inner wheel to the outer wheel to balance out the car? ---
**Author:** ![Gonad](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gonad/32/5481_2.png) [@Gonad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Gonad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/10 "2004-04-15T18:31:12Z")
I already told you about this Adam, it’s about leverage. So the innermost holes are stiffer. As shown below by my awesome ASCII art, the holes at #1 have more stiffness. 3 2 1 =================== 1 2 3 o o o =================== o o o Take a piece of metal tube. Put your hand to the outermost edge and try to bend the bar. It’s easier right? Now if you put your hand closer to the middle, it’s a lot harder/stiffer. ---
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/11 "2004-04-15T18:39:23Z")
> [@Gonad](#): > > Take a piece of metal tube. Put your hand to the outermost edge and try > to bend the bar. It’s easier right? Now if you put your hand closer to the > middle, it’s a lot harder/stiffer. Right, I’m _ **NOT** _ disagreeing with that at all man, my point is the whole idea of the sway bar is to transfer energy from the inner tire to the outer tire upon cornering right? So why make it harder to do so by putting it on the inner holes? I must be missing something here… ---
**Author:** ![Gonad](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gonad/32/5481_2.png) [@Gonad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Gonad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/12 "2004-04-15T18:48:52Z")
Anti-sway AKA Anti-roll. You don’t want the car to roll right? So keep it stiff. Now you are probablly wondering why Whiteline would offer the option to let you go with more flex then. Well, perhaps a little flex is good sometimes. I guess it would depend on the setup of the vehicle. Whatever the case, I’m keeping mine on full stiffness. I’ll get used to it. 🙂 BTW, I talked to a shop about heim-joints and they will carry something in a few weeks. And I was told it’d be about $20 for the joints so I’ll look into that for a cheaper alternative then PDM’s $65USD ($100CAD shipped almost). ---
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/13 "2004-04-15T19:06:50Z")
> [@Gonad](#): > > Just keep it on full stiff and be done with. Now stop whining. ^^^ BAH!!! **WHAT SETTING MOST STIFFEST AND WHY!!!** ---
**Author:** ![Gonad](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gonad/32/5481_2.png) [@Gonad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Gonad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/14 "2004-04-15T19:10:50Z")
Here’s what you do. Put the OEM bar and the Whiteline bar on top of each other. This is what you will see. The whiteline only offers you the option to run less stiffness. That is all. ```auto o ============ o <-- OEM o o o ============ o o o <-- Whiteline ``` ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_SG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/sasha_sg/32/5477_2.png) [@Sasha\_SG](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Sasha_SG)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/15 "2004-04-15T20:19:59Z")
like i said before man, the suspension puts force on the bar, and the bar resists the movement. Ur thinking about it backwards. If there was NO bar, the suspension could move as it wish. If it was unlimited stiffness the suspension wouldn’t move. The farthest out hole is the softest because the suspension applies the most leverage on the sway bar. the closer hole requires more force than the outer hole… dont think of it as the sway bar acting on the suspension think of it as the suspension acting on the sway bar!!! ---
**Author:** ![Gonad](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gonad/32/5481_2.png) [@Gonad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Gonad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/16 "2004-04-15T20:32:03Z")
Another thing, the stiffness settings will let you adjust to understeer or oversteer depending on setup. For example, if you keep it on softest up front (outer most holes on the front bar) and stiffest in the rear, I believe you will induce more oversteer. Something to play with I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/17 "2004-04-15T21:26:40Z")
“When you go into a turn now, the front suspension member of the outside of the turn gets pushed upward. The arm of the sway bar gets pushed upward, and this applies torsion to the rod. The torsion them moves the arm at the other end of the rod, and this causes the suspension on the other side of the car to compress as well. The car’s body tends to stay flat in the turn.” Thus would you not want to make it easier to push the inner suspension components upward via a larger leverage point? (Outer Most Holes?) ---
**Author:** ![Gonad](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gonad/32/5481_2.png) [@Gonad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Gonad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/18 "2004-04-15T21:27:44Z")
All this talk about holes is making me… :boink: If you are curious, try the different settings and run through a slalom course in an open parking lot. Perhaps try with pylons if you got some. ---
**Author:** ![SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@SHIFT\_KA24DET](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SHIFT_KA24DET)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/19 "2004-04-15T21:30:55Z")
> [@Gonad](#): > > All this talk about holes is making me… :boink: All this talk about holes is making me wonder why you’re not in one and dead. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gonad](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gonad/32/5481_2.png) [@Gonad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Gonad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875/20 "2004-04-15T21:34:30Z")
> [@Whiteline](#): > > A swaybar is actually a torsion spring not unlike a coil spring. Imagine you could uncoil your coil springs, and then hold each end and twist. This is pretty much what happens with the coil when it does its work as the shape forces the material to twist through out its length as it’s compressed. > > Going back to our straightened piece of spring steel, with your arms holding each end, imagine that each of your arms represent the swaybars “arms” and the spring steel rod represents the “back” or centre portion of the bar between the arms. As you try to twist the ends, a certain amount of flex happens in your arms but most of the action happens across the back of the bar. Hence, the formula calculating swaybar rates requires a value for the length of the back of the bar as well as the length of the arms. > > The formula does not allow for a left or right arm value, just a total that acknowledges that the total arm length vs. the back length is the key calculation affecting the rate. We know that shortening the effective length of the arm by choosing a hole closer to the back of the bar will reduce the leverage ratio hence increase the rate but this affects the total arm length so can be done on one side only. In this way, a 2 hole per arm Blade adjustable bar does actually have 3 different settings; a 3-hole bar has 5 different settings. Additional mounting holes on the chassis end multiply the options further. [http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/faqswaybars.htm](http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/faqswaybars.htm) Other sites: [http://stefanostadal.homedns.org/car\_mods\_suspension.htm](http://stefanostadal.homedns.org/car_mods_suspension.htm) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/whiteline-sway-bars-adjustable-endlinks-question/80875.md?page=2)