# Who do you think will come out ontop? GM or Ford? **URL:** \ **Category:** SON240sx Automotive\ **Created:** [November 7, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715 "2008-11-07T17:26:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RED\_LINE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/red_line/32/5656_2.png) [@RED\_LINE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RED_LINE)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 9:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/21 "2008-11-08T09:27:12Z")
these two producers weren’t so “shit ass” way before u and I were born, they made loads and loads of money, helped out the economies of North America as a whole with jobs and giving back to the market. Their quality and materials was better than many other car makers including the Japs back in the 50’s & 60’s I’d say. I think it wasn’t after the 1980’s that the management got stupid and ignorant and allowed to make shitty cars and the imports came in and time by time surpassed them. ---
**Author:** ![Singh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@Singh](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Singh)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/22 "2008-11-08T09:31:03Z")
yea, i don’t see why people on this site hate on them so much, i love the old school American cars, i ain’t gonna hate on domestics just because i drive an import.Also, i know about 10 people that work at ford and GM, if they go under those people will be pretty much screwed, So i hope they get some help, and the companies continue to do business. On a side note, they need some new engineers and design people as a lot of their cars really suck nowadays, they need to understand that just trucks and suv’s alone aren’t the market, they need some fuel efficient reliable cars like, honda, nissan and toyota. ---
**Author:** ![Noga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@Noga](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Noga)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/23 "2008-11-08T09:44:12Z")
Yeh you people dont realize that if car manufacturing plant closes down such as the one I work at(Chrysler) that is 800 people spending 100,000 less a year. So that means there would be 80,000,000 less being spent into our economy. Now you have to realize I work at one of the smallest plants around. Brampton employs thousands. Now yours looking at 100’s of millions of dollars not being spent by people which filters down into other work sectors causing them to fire/lay people off and the process continues. Auto manufactoring is one of the biggest if not biggest asset that north america relies on. ---
**Author:** ![GetARide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@GetARide](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/GetARide)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/24 "2008-11-08T10:40:19Z")
> [@FS: NEC E949](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-nec-e949/18953/3): > > Wrong…ZEN. > > Not legal for sale in Ontario. What is ZEN? Do they even fall in to Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards? Maybe that is why Ontario doesn’t want them. EDIT: Nevermind, I read about the company, seems like a good start but only Electric cars? c’mon… It is destined to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_S13](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_s13/32/5563_2.png) [@Blue\_S13](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_S13)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/25 "2008-11-08T10:55:58Z")
Sorry that was suppose to be Zenn [www.zenncars.com](http://www.zenncars.com) Ontario’s transport minister doesn’t wan’t them in Ontario because he’s an asshole. No safety issues, just plain asshole. Search on Rick Mercer’s web site for the piece he did on it. ---
**Author:** ![Polar\_s13](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/polar_s13/32/5572_2.png) [@Polar\_s13](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Polar_s13)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/26 "2008-11-08T10:59:31Z")
Why should we the people help bail out these fools and then in another what 50 years or so their going to f_ck up again. I dunno how you guys were raised but if I were to f_ck something up I dont rely on some1 else to fix my problems I fix them myself. Oh yea and I do agree that american cars were good back in the day 80’s and under. ---
**Author:** ![migs2jz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6bbea6/32.png) [@migs2jz](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/migs2jz)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/27 "2008-11-08T11:11:03Z")
If either one goes bankrupt…I know loads of ppl are out of job. They outsource their parts. Heck, i’m out of job (good thing i have two jobs). I think GM will win this one out. They got the ability to make a decent car. They need to spend a little more money on their designs, then they’ll be competitive. Or they can outsource motors and drivetrains that are proven (ie. Pontiac Vibe). Sure Ford has some decent European models. BUT why did they not bring those over to North America earlier? Ford is failing. They also own some ailing luxury brands - jaguar and aston martin. Those two are just holes in fords pockets right now. ---
**Author:** ![GetARide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@GetARide](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/GetARide)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/28 "2008-11-08T11:18:14Z")
> [@\*\*I need advice\*\*](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-need-advice/18935/19): > > Why should we the people help bail out these fools and then in another what 50 years or so their going to f_ck up again. I dunno how you guys were raised but if I were to f_ck something up I dont rely on some1 else to fix my problems I fix them myself. > > Oh yea and I do agree that american cars were good back in the day 80’s and under. I agree, propping up failing businesses never worked. I blame it on NAFTA, Its why alot of plants close here and open up in mexico. Corporate greed. ---
**Author:** ![GetARide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@GetARide](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/GetARide)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/29 "2008-11-08T11:20:40Z")
> [@migs2jz"](#): > > They also own some ailing luxury brands - jaguar and aston martin. Those two are just holes in fords pockets right now. I Believe TATA motors of India owns Jag and Land Rover ---
**Author:** ![Singh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@Singh](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Singh)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/30 "2008-11-08T11:48:00Z")
I wouldn’t want to bail them out either, but this comes down to the very economy, if all governments from day one never interupted the econmies, economys would always go through constant cyles of high activity and low activity, but because of government agendas, elections and what not, they interupt the economy, fucking up the cyles, which in turn mess everyone else, so to help out they have to bail out big companies and small people alike. I don’t want them bailing out Ford or GM either, as i believe a business that can handle it will take care of it themselves, if not they will go out of business, but in this case, them going under directly affects our economy. So while u might think you shouldn’t have to pay for it, down the road it will be 10 times worse if you dont do it know. People will lose jobs, and ulimately have to leave this area, because of lack of jobs and the economy in Toronto alone will lose tons of money to people not earning money anymore, like noga said. Which will make toronto fall, and make everything more expensive for the rest of us, so fuck, i would rather pay some tax money today, then 10 times that 5 years from now cuz i didn’t want to at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Singh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@Singh](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Singh)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/31 "2008-11-08T11:52:21Z")
If this situation didn’t affect Toronto or Ontario, i wouldn’t give a two shit about this either, but it does, so I hope both companies can find a solution and keep from furthur downsizing of their companies, as a very large percentage of the toronto population is employed in the auto sector. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.K](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mr.k/32/5670_2.png) [@Mr.K](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mr.K)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/32 "2008-11-09T11:25:42Z")
GM. I think their products are slightly better, and I think they have a slightly larger amount of job/factories in Ontario than Ford. I love the kids that want all the US automakers to go under because they are massive JDM fanboys…they don’t seem to realize the consequences of the massive job loss that would occur as a result of any of those companies going under. ---
**Author:** ![Hacknik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba9def/32.png) [@Hacknik](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hacknik)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/33 "2008-11-09T11:40:26Z")
Doesint Ford own a large share hold of Mazda? So if Ford goes under, wouldint there be a significant slow down in the production of Mazda vehicles? ---
**Author:** ![GetARide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@GetARide](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/GetARide)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/34 "2008-11-09T12:18:10Z")
I just don’t see how GM or Ford can repay such loans if they run a huge billion dollar deficit. They will go bankrupt and maybe Toyota will buy them, who knows, maybe Jim Balsillie will take interest. ---
**Author:** ![jacktherabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jacktherabbit](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jacktherabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/35 "2008-11-09T12:19:38Z")
> Why should we the people help bail out these fools and then in another what 50 years or so their going to f_ck up again. I dunno how you guys were raised but if I were to f_ck something up I dont rely on some1 else to fix my problems I fix them myself. This i craziness. Lets just talk about gm alone. If something were to happen to them and no one bails them out, tons of people will be out of jobs around Canada. It will impact us huge here in toronto. We have the Oshawa gm plant that would be closed down and many people will be out of job. people think the area of south Oshawa is bad, well that will be all of Oshawa, Ajax, Whitby and maybe more. Results: - flood of the market for job seekers - high #'s of unemployment - Canada’s economy will drop huge - living quality will drop (feel free to add more to this list. I know its can get really big) Just thin of all the GM dealer ships will be out of business also. I was diving through Oshawa last night and in 10 km/square, i counted atleast 4/5 dealerships. Remember its not just GM, but chev, buick, pontiac and more. This is all just GM. dont forget about ford. The govt. better cut job wages of those over paid 6 fig govt. workers who just sit on their asses all day and help bail these two companies out. WE ALL DEPEND ON IT! ---
**Author:** ![Slide\_Junkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/74df32/32.png) [@Slide\_Junkie](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Slide_Junkie)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/36 "2008-11-09T12:46:07Z")
my guess is ford will prevail… just from what I know Id take a ford any day over a chev… the quality just isnt their in the chevys… and ford has a lot of off brands and ties with a lot of other car manufactures ---
**Author:** ![240sxfanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/82dd89/32.png) [@240sxfanatic](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/240sxfanatic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/37 "2008-11-09T14:12:01Z")
> [@Where are the Futher Mucking banner ads?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/where-are-the-futher-mucking-banner-ads/18986/8): > > This i craziness. Lets just talk about gm alone. If something were to happen to them and no one bails them out, tons of people will be out of jobs around Canada. It will impact us huge here in toronto. We have the Oshawa gm plant that would be closed down and many people will be out of job. people think the area of south Oshawa is bad, well that will be all of Oshawa, Ajax, Whitby and maybe more. > > Results: > > - flood of the market for job seekers > - high #'s of unemployment > - Canada’s economy will drop huge > - living quality will drop > (feel free to add more to this list. I know its can get really big) > Just thin of all the GM dealer ships will be out of business also. I was diving through Oshawa last night and in 10 km/square, i counted atleast 4/5 dealerships. Remember its not just GM, but chev, buick, pontiac and more. > > This is all just GM. dont forget about ford. > > The govt. better cut job wages of those over paid 6 fig govt. workers who just sit on their asses all day and help bail these two companies out. WE ALL DEPEND ON IT! To be fair, GM employees at the Oshawa plant make a very comfortable wage considering how menial the work they do. Nurses don’t even make close to it and are working longer hours, dealing with more important issues. It costs GM, Ford and Chrysler around $77.75 Canadian PER employee for every hour they work. ( [http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080418.wrgm18/BNStory/Business/home](http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080418.wrgm18/BNStory/Business/home) ) No wonder they can’t stay competitive, because they have the CAW pushing GM, Ford and Chrysler to pay almost the equivalent of $80 an hour with wages, benefits and plant expenses to insert part A into part B. It’s ludicrous for them to expect those wages and not expect lay offs. Hell, the layoffs include amazing severance packages…We’re talking 100k+ early retirement pay outs. GM, Chrysler and Ford are individual economic entities, they have no responsibility for providing jobs to the Ontario workers. Regardless of the amount of money the Federal and Provincial government provide these companies, in addition to the insane tax deductions, these companies do not have any responsibility to stay here. Those tax breaks and easy money are given to KEEP these companies in Ontario. GM has the right to close down what ever plants they have and ship it all to Mexico. If the Federal government doesn’t want to bail these companies out, alright, GM, Ford and Chrysler head on somewhere were you can stay afloat and at least make your shareholders not kill themselves. The capitalist in me wants GM, Ford and Chrysler to fail, because well, that’s the essence of a free capitalist market. You want to know why these people are going to lose their jobs? Blame the CAW…Their union reps are pulling in more than the boys in the cabinet. Getting paid 6 figures, going on extravagant trips and insane bonuses at the expense of the union fees these workers pay. The reason? Because they keep pushing these automakers into a deeper financial hole by constantly requesting more and more money… A bailout would be ridiculous. Why should I have to suffer from inflationary costs from the government creating more cash because of somebody else wants to keep saving a drowning, crippled horse? Let them move the hell out of here to Mexico and be done with it. Mate, from my eyes, the bailout will hurt us more economically and affect our standard of living more. Our loss in purchasing power will affect those already in the most dire living situations. ---
**Author:** ![3VoL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/dfb087/32.png) [@3VoL](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/3VoL)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/38 "2008-11-09T14:37:23Z")
what about Gm buying Chrysler? Their idea looks good because there aren’t too many successful companies that have 150,000 people working for them and 650,000 with retirement packages. Sorry to say but it looks like the unions are dragging them to the bottom. Something that some of the other companies don’t have to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![GetARide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@GetARide](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/GetARide)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/39 "2008-11-09T14:43:37Z")
A bailout will help Americans because it is American tax payer money. GM, Ford, Chrysler don’t give two shits about Ontario, infact they are complaining that the Canadian dollar is too high to do business here. I say fuck’em. Do you guys even know how much debt the big 3 have with all their divisions combined? More then Canada’s $500 billion debt, lol. Let’em rot, we need a new start. ---
**Author:** ![Rb26dett\_s12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rb26dett\_s12](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Rb26dett_s12)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715/40 "2008-11-12T08:51:56Z")
I blame the Unions for this mess. CAW, UAW are killing the big three, the sooner Unions are outta there, the sooner these companies can start making money again. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/who-do-you-think-will-come-out-ontop-gm-or-ford/119715.md?page=3)