E85 Conversion

[brokeasskorean]

@PoisonousBeef

The concept of running some random E85-gasoline blend and getting a totally unknown mixture seems mildly retarded. E85 is not gasoline and while I acknowledge the potential for performance gains with a proper conversion, I would never run E85 through a motor that was only set up to burn gasoline. Aside from not really knowing the properties of the aforementioned 33% blend, E85 as a classification denotes “up to” 85% ethanol by volume, so not all E85 has the same amount of ethanol.

truth, but the octane levels would still be higher than pump gas. even if the ethanol levels vary

[bald1one]

i would def not reccomend mixing any large amounts of alcohol based fuels with petrol you will effectively change the stoichiometric mixture and more than likey burn lean.

[Shaggy]

asians and thier damn fuel mileage
george

[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ErbvVnLS3Q”]YouTube - Crazy Traffic in Hanoi, Damn Asian Drivers[/ame]

[gtlaw]

@PoisonousBeef

The concept of running some random E85-gasoline blend and getting a totally unknown mixture seems mildly retarded. E85 is not gasoline and while I acknowledge the potential for performance gains with a proper conversion, I would never run E85 through a motor that was only set up to burn gasoline. Aside from not really knowing the properties of the aforementioned 33% blend, E85 as a classification denotes “up to” 85% ethanol by volume, so not all E85 has the same amount of ethanol.

good point but standard gasoline is already E10, but who knows if they actually put exactly 10%. I would expect manufacturers to account for that in their tunes, and if I were to tune for E85 I would try to be a little rich to be safe.

BTW I ran straight E85 in my 84 volvo 242 turbo on 10lbs of boost without a problem. that was only to pass emissions which worked:bigok:

[PoisonousBeef]

@brokeasskorean

truth, but the octane levels would still be higher than pump gas. even if the ethanol levels vary

you’re right, though as some others have stated, because ethanol has less energy by volume you need to push up to 40% more fuel than with gasoline…my point is just that a random mix of e85 and gasoline seems like a bad call. While an ECU can compensate somewhat, extreme variables make it less likely that you can maintain a proper A:F mixture…I’m not certain how the FFV’s do it, though I’ve read that they have some kind of equipment that actually measures the amount of ethanol in your fuel

@gtlaw

good point but standard gasoline is already E10, but who knows if they actually put exactly 10%. I would expect manufacturers to account for that in their tunes, and if I were to tune for E85 I would try to be a little rich to be safe.

A good point, though my guess is that E10 gasoline probably doesn’t require a great deal of compensation. If it did, I think you would see earlier vehicles (like F.I. OBD0 cars) have trouble running, but even unmodified they are fine. From 1000cc of E10 gasoline (assuming it’s exact, and 900cc is pure gasoline), you would in theory need 1030cc of fuel. That is sort of an extreme example since you aren’t burning 1000cc (about 1/4 gallon) in a single cycle, so you can imagine just how little additional fuel is required in each ignition cycle. It seems so small that really the average ECU is going to have no problem making the compensation, if any is made at all, since most engines don’t have a 100% burn or a perfectly stoich mixture most of the time.

Brazil has been using higher ethanol blends (E20/E25) for quite a few years, though they also have a sizeable fleet of E100 vehicles, and a good deal of their success is owed to the use of sugarcane instead of cornstock. A lot of their cars still have a tiny “starting reservoir” with gasoline, since ethanol can make cold starts difficult if the ambient temperature is below I think about 50.

Your comment about being a little rich makes perfect sense, and if I was ever going to set up an E85 car, I would certainly plan on being rich. Awesome that it got your Volvo to pass emissions, 242’s are the Swedish hotness.

[obi-1]

@PoisonousBeef

you’re right, though as some others have stated, because ethanol has less energy by volume you need to push up to 40% more fuel than with gasoline…my point is just that a random mix of e85 and gasoline seems like a bad call. While an ECU can compensate somewhat, extreme variables make it less likely that you can maintain a proper A:F mixture…I’m not certain how the FFV’s do it, though I’ve read that they have some kind of equipment that actually measures the amount of ethanol in your fuel

I read somewhere FFV’s have a sensor in the tank that determines the specific gravity of the fuel. Ethanol is heavier (I think) so the heavier the mixture, the higher the ethanol content anywhere from 0 to 85. The injectors are scaled to pulse longer accordingly.

[robry]

I wanna switch to e85 in my RSX as soon as we have it available here. Problem is noone carries it in Johnstown yet, so no real reason to switch. I know a few of the clubrsx guys running e85 have made big power.

[brokeasskorean]

@Shaggy

asians and thier damn fuel mileage
george

YouTube - Crazy Traffic in Hanoi, Damn Asian Drivers

thats a little insane. i’ve never seen so many scooters in my life

[69camaro]

also, i hear that the ethanol sensors are expensive

[martin0660]

@fmfkid250

I am just worried about the inconsistancy of the fuel.

@PoisonousBeef

E85 as a classification denotes “up to” 85% ethanol by volume, so not all E85 has the same amount of ethanol.

These are the points that keep me “off” the E85 bandwagon.

Some of the Turbo Ford guys in the midwest where E85 is really cheaper have done the conversion by just upping injector size by 30%, no tune, playing with fuel pressure to dial it in, and running it as a daily driver fuel driver. Seems to work for them.

The other camp is the guys using it instead of race gas. They seem to be the ones picking up in the inconsistancy of the E85 blend (and having tuning issues), especially in cooler months where they add more gas to “E85” becasue of the cold start issues.

The best of both worlds seems to be a system (like megasquirt) that will accept the input from the mixture sensors used on some of the E85 capable cars to really tune based on real mixture. Those are still too costly to experiment with, so it might be a few years off before it gets worked out.

I too have seem some amazing reports of E85 conversion instead of race gas, but also know of two turbo cars that had big issues (one blow through carbed, one EFI) because of the incosistancy of the fuel.

Bob Myers

[spoolinsteve]

just dump it in and tune for it you need no real special things or sensors.