Never said it was all their fault guy. But don’t act as if the far right conservatives do not pay them ANY attentiont.
:roll:
“There are people on both the left and the right against the bailout in it’s current form.”
Listen I’m not trying to place partisan blame, this is far too important for that So i’ll reitterate: my post was in reference to an earlier post about the masses:
http://nyspeed.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1106122&postcount=449
Left’s case:
-The taxpayers will not only bail out U.S. companies, but also foreign ones
-Million-dollar-a-month CEO salaries will continue
-The five-member oversight board will include three Bush appointees
-Few home owners will be saved from foreclosure
-There are no guarantees that the treasury will get warrants commensurate with its investment
-There is no regulatory reform in the bill
Right’s case:
-Economic freedom means the freedom to succeed but also the freedom to fail
-This bill gives the government the right to interrupt free markets
-The bill changes the relationship between the government and the markets
-The American people will have to foot the bill for Wall St.'s mismanagement
Now lets get a fucking compromise together. It’s like putting 535 kindergarteners in a room and expecting a consensus.
whoa apparently we edited at the same time. 
fuck a consensus, just bee a majority
I’m sure this guy has some good points but I can never concentrate for some reason.
Did the Dems lose the majority?:gotme:
I say someone starts a new thread for actual market talk, this one is overrun with :picard:
Ok, this is a bit over my head, but I do really like one part of it that I understand. The PDF is here but it’s taking FOREVER to load right now. It’s the RSC’s alternative plan (RSC being the Republican Study Committee).
http://www.house.gov/hensarling/rsc/doc/rsc_version_economic_rescue_alternative_9-29-08.pdf
ECONOMIC RESCUE ALTERNATIVE PLAN
September 29, 2008
We believe that policymakers must act decisively and correctly.
We believe that we can help Wall Street “workout” of this crisis, not force the taxpayers into a “bailout.”
We believe that voluntary private capital, not involuntary taxpayer capital, will help the system recover.
A Work-Out—Not a Bail-Out
•
Stabilizing Financial Markets: Require the Treasury Department to guarantee losses up to 100%, resulting from the failure of timely payment and interest from mortgage-backed securities (MBS) originated prior to the date of enactment. Such insurance would provide immediate value to the MBS and a foundation for which they could then be sold.
•
Risk-Based Premiums: Direct the Treasury Department to assess a premium on outstanding MBS to finance this insurance. Participation in the program would be mandatory for all holders of such MBS in order to guard against adverse selection where only the holders of troubled assets participate. A risk-based premium would be assessed on those with troubled MBS. The premium would expire when the Treasury Secretary determines the fund has sufficient resources to meet any projected losses.
Private-Capital Off the Sidelines by Empowering Private Investors
•
Net Operating Losses: Allow companies to carry-back losses arising in tax years ending in 2007, 2008, or 2009 back 5 years, generating a tax refund and immediate capital. Despite the presence of willing buyers, many firms with MBS are not willing to sell at such a huge loss. Such a carry-back provides a cushion for any such loss, making firms more willing sellers.
•
Repatriation Infusion: Allow a repatriation window for profits earned by U.S. firms overseas. Such repatriation amounts would be taxed at 0% if invested in distressed debt (as defined by Treasury) for at least one year.
•
Bank Losses on GSE Stock: Allow banks to treat losses on shares of preferred stock in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as ordinary losses, not as capital losses.
•
Two-Year Suspension of the Capital Gains: Immediately suspend the capital gains rate from 15% for individuals and 35% for corporations. By encouraging corporations to sell unwanted assets, this provision would unleash funds and materials with which to create jobs and grow the economy. After the two-year suspension, capital gains rates would return to present levels but assets would be indexed permanently for any inflationary gains.
Reforming a Failure in Government Institutions
•
Limit Federal Backing for High Risk Loans: Mandate that GSEs no longer securitize any unsound mortgage that is: (1) not fully documented to meet minimum requirements for work, assets, and income; (2) written to comply with any law or regulation that would otherwise violate a firm’s lending rules.
•
Schedule the GSEs for Privatization: Transition Fannie and Freddie over a reasonable time period to truly private companies without special government privileges and open them up to real market competition. This reform would 1) establish commonsense limits for their capital requirements and portfolio holdings relative their size, 2) focus their mission on affordable housing only, not profit
making, 3) require them to pay an appropriate risk-based amount for the government guarantee they enjoy, 4) subject them to state and local taxes and accurate SEC filings like every other private for-profit corporation, and 5) ultimately provide for the phase out their GSE charters once their conservatorship has ended.
•
Suspend “Mark to Market” Accounting: Direct the SEC to suspend the mark-to-market regulatory rules until the agency can issue new guidelines that will allow firms to mark these assets to their true economic value. The current rules contribute to a downward spiral as firms have to evaluate their assets not on the basis of their long-term investment but rather on a short-term mania.
•
Stabilize the Dollar: Repeal the Humphrey-Hawkins Full Employment Act which diverts the Federal Reserve’s attention from long-term price stability to short-term economic growth. In an effort to fuel the economy, this additional mandate has encouraged the Fed to keep rates artificially low, fueling economic boom and busts, and now a strong up-tick in inflation and the decline of the dollar (as investors free dollars for hard assets). This reform would require the Fed to establish a numerical definition for price stability and maintain a policy that promotes it over the long-term.
Oversight and Corporate Accountability
•
Executive Compensation Limits: Require the Treasury to write rules prohibiting excessive compensation or golden parachutes to executives of failed companies at the expense of taxpayers.
•
Strict Enforcement of Laws Designed to Protect Investors: Task the SEC with reviewing the annual audit reports of entities the federal government has brought under conservatorship or now owns, and determine if those annual audit reports from years 2005 to present accurately reflected the financial health of those businesses.
The part about Mark to Market would be a huge help to banks. Right now, because there is no market to sell these mortgages and mortgage backed securities banks have to write them off each month as zero value BY LAW. We all know the majority of them are worth full value, but under the current rules they have to be put on the books as zero dollar simply because they can’t be immediately sold.
The rest of it I’ll let you guys pick apart, but I sure would like to see that one item added to the revised plan.
I don’t see anything in there that will prevent this from happening again, only how to fix this so that we’re all set to do it over again. We can’t stay with the “no regulation until we need regulation to save our asses” mentality, or we might as well not bother fixing it this time.
No version of the bailout are dealing with preventing this in the future. That issue is going to take much more time to write up the proper regulations and find out exactly what the cause was. If the only version of the bailout you’ll support is one with regulations to prevent this you might as well say you don’t support a bailout. By the time they agree on that the economy will have either tanked or recovered on it’s own.
If you jump out of an airplane and your chute doesn’t open, which is your priority; figuring out the emergency chute or figuring out why the main one didn’t open? Me, I’ll pull the emergency chute and once I’m on the ground and into a fresh pair of pants I’ll start looking at what went wrong with my main chute.
Jay, your boy Obama has taken the lead:
Quoting Franklin D. Roosevelt, Obama called on Americans to show the “confidence and courage” that he said were essential to the success of the plan. He asked people to believe in the country even if they are angry or anxious about the current crisis. And he tied the rescue plan to his own agenda, spelling out his plans to cut taxes, make health care and college more affordable and promote clean energy, including clean coal.
With an eye to casting the bailout deal as a time for patriotic action to save the American economy, Obama did not once mention John McCain. He said that now was not a time for politics or for taking credit or laying blame, and he compared the situation to putting out a fire in a neighbor’s house so that it would not spread to others. “We’ve got to make sure that we put the fire out and then go start making sure that these folks stop leaving the stove on,” he said. “But right now our job is to put out the fire and we can’t forget that.”
Obama said this was no longer just a Wall Street crisis, but an American crisis and that failure to pass a rescue plan could mean thousands of businesses could close around the country, millions of jobs could be lost and a long and painful recession could follow.
”Because of the housing crisis – and nobody’s been hit harder by foreclosures in the housing crisis than Nevada – we are now in a very dangerous situation where financial institutions across this country are afraid to lend money,” he told the crowd gathered on a lawn at the University of Nevada at Reno. “If all that meant was the failure of a few big banks on Wall Street, that’d be one thing. But that’s not what it means. What it means is that if we do not act, it will be harder for you to get a mortgage for your home or the loans you need to go to college or the loan you need to buy a car to get to work. What it means is that businesses won’t be able to get loans they need to open new factories, or hire more workers, or make payroll for the workers they have.”
for actual leadership on the issue not a gimmick swoop into washington
Fun Fact:
Of 38 incumbents in House races rated by the Cook Political Report as competitive or Toss Ups, 30 voted against the bailout. That’s all but five of 17 Dems in tough reelection races, and all but three of 21 Republican incumbents running for another term. And, as First Read noted this morning, most retiring members not running for office – 19 out of 24 – voted in favor of the recovery bill.
This is why selling it to Americans is sooo important
^ Ok great, but where was his big push to pass the bill Monday, before the vote?
BTW, McCain is saying the same thing today.
John McCain: “I have talked to the President this morning and recommended an increase from $100,000 to $250,000 FDIC insurance on deposits. I also strongly recommended that we use the exchange stability fund that the Treasury has available – $250 billion – to shore up these institutions. Also, the Treasury has at its disposal about $1 trillion that they could begin without Congressional authority buying up some of these terrible mortgages and help stabilize the situation. So I’ve talked to the President. I know that we have to act. Even though we failed yesterday, even though I went back and was able to get more Republicans on board or help get more Republicans on board, we will go back to this, and I will be engaged always where I think America needs engagement.”
…
“We’re going to have to change enough Republican and Democrats’ minds. It was 95 Democrats that voted against it. People’s credit is at risk here – the ability to buy a car, to make your home loan payments, for small businesses to get credit. Look, this is affecting Main Street America. And we’re going to have to resolve it, and we’re going to have to act. One point two trillion dollars of American savings, pensions, IRAs, mutual funds, investments, et cetera was wiped out, and that hurts Main Street. I’ve got a plan for cutting spending, for keeping taxes low, for making sure that people can stay in their homes, and a long-term plan. In the short-term, we’ve got to take these measures I just outlined to you, and let’s go back, and let’s make Americans understand who are opposed. I was watching your program earlier. How this affects not Wall Street, but Main Street and working families of America.”
Neither of them were very outspoken about the need to pass a plan until after it failed and the market tanked. That gave them both the political cover they needed to hop on the “we must pass something” soapbox.
BTW Joe, that bolded part, I think that was exactly what you said this morning. Maybe you should be voting McCain. 
Obama didn’t push b/c he didn’t want to risk the deal breaking down like it did when McCain initially showed up. Then once there was a deal everyone assumed it would pass, so no point in pushing for a sure thing. Now that it’s blown up it’s a matter of “There’s no possible way to make it worse, might as well dive in”
I guess you missed when Obama said:
“If all that meant was the failure of a few big banks on Wall Street, that’d be one thing. But that’s not what it means. What it means is that if we do not act, it will be harder for you to get a mortgage for your home or the loans you need to go to college or the loan you need to buy a car to get to work. What it means is that businesses won’t be able to get loans they need to open new factories, or hire more workers, or make payroll for the workers they have.”
FYI Obama introduced the FDIC higher limit earlier this AM, McCain adopted it. (As he said on Morning Joe today “We need to do what Sen Obama said, raise the FDIC limits”)
The bill is a complete piece of crap in it’s current form and should be defeated.
I don’t understand why anyone would even consider allowing the people who said this mess was not coming to be the same people to fix the situation. They obviously have no clue what is going on. Why wouldn’t you at least look at the people who have been saying this whole mess was on its way for years now?
People are to arrogant and proud to admit they were wrong and seek help from anyone else.
Shorting ban likely to be extended…
So the bailout vote is at 7:30. If you’re approved for after hours, buy now and make a quick buck in 2 hours.
how do you get approved for after hours?
Not sure, prob varies from broker to broker. On ameritrade I was automatically approved since I have a margin account.