Game Over (Game On?) for Financial Markets?

I agree with most of that, I’ve said many times (not necessarily in this thread) that it’s important the money is spent in the right places in the right way for economic stimulus to work. I think we can both agree massive regulation and bureacracy are not that right way. I mention the checkbook example because the thinking that most people have when it comes to the federal debt is something along the lines of “if I’m in trouble financially I need to reign in my spending and start paying down my credit card, the government should be doing the equivalent of that” or something along those lines. Basic logic suggests that, which is why many people follow that train of thought; but when it comes to macroeconomics it’s just not true, reigning in spending during a recession produces a stagnant economy and a very slow recovery.

Here we’re getting into things that I’m not as familiar with, I know about NAFTA and glass steagall, both things which really put a damper on the Clinton presidency for me. I’m not really familiar with the rest, but to be fair I was 11 when Clinton left office so that could have something to do with it lol. I’m very aware our problems are bi-partisan, I probably seemed pretty liberal biased in that last post, generally speaking though I tend to fall somewhere in the middle of the two.

Event, we’re on a similar page for sure. Often when people communicate about economics or politics things appear to be heated, on my end there was no animosity intended. I didn’t take your tone as aggressive either, it’s just the way this stuff reads really. I’m also a late bloomer as far as politics are concerned, I didn’t become interested until about 5 years ago roughly. Politics used to disgust me & turn me off, after the last 5 years I’m understanding why my gut reaction was as it was.

The thing with a federal budget and especially the deficit that funds the budget is they can never be fully balanced or there would be no money. Where personal and government budgets are similar is when the going gets tough the frivolous spending must go. In good times sprinkle a little luxury on the economy, but when the shit hits the fan you’d better clean up the mess or it begins to smell rather quickly.

We’re also both talking about spending in the “right places” which is of the utmost importance where stimulus is involved. Borrowing at interest (as our government does) requires either growth or inflation to cover the interest burden. Borrowing at interest for short term consumption will create no realized growth to pay interest let alone principal, they really need to invest for growth or they will produce inflation. This is not to say growth is a cure all, growth is tricky because the growth of one would come at the expense of another (assuming a finite money supply). Inflation could be amazing it if spread evenly, no defaults & only good times perhaps…but of course it doesn’t work that way. Interest is an age old method used to ensure large scale, long term inequality. There’s a reason some cultures treat usury as an act of treason… yet for some reason we consider it an admirable, profitable concept.

http://www.businessinsider.com/aig-launched-risky-bets-under-greenberg-2013-1

My personal feeling is this dude should be stripped of all his assets and forced to live on the east side of buffalo.

I’ll back that proposal.

The sad part is he’s probably got valid points about the government doing shady shit, but you can’t really go to the cops to bitch that the other crook took more than his fair share of the takings from the bank robbery.

Lol, we borrowed money to give all you guys a tax cut for 2 years and piled it straight on the deficit and now everyone is bitching about both the tax cut being gone, and the deficit.

At least the interest rates are lower now for the tab, right? LOL

That was over quick: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/aig-decides-against-lawsuit-85967.html?hp=f1

Wasn’t there someone on here who called the cops over a drug deal gone bad? Like he was selling drugs but the guy he was selling to robbed him, so the seller called the cops?

Same thing as AIG suing the fed.

LOL yes!

oh man who was that, that was hilarious

Now Obama’s home state of Illinois wants you to register your gold… and not pay cash.
Wow.

Article I read today on the SS system. This shit makes me sick.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-12/guest-post-social-security-system-already-broke

The worst part is that he did make some decent points, but I can’t take anyone seriously who is that blatantly partisan.

Well this oughta smoke what value is left of the dollar. Under the guise of “forcing congress to do their jobs” congress has passed a law that eliminates the debt ceiling until May 19th, and re-establishes it at whatever the debt happens to be after the 4 month free-for-all.

I voted no on H R 325, No Budget, No Pay Act of 2013. The bill has two parts.

First, the bill suspends the debt ceiling through May 18, 2013. In other words, it allows the government to operate as though there is no debt ceiling. On May 19, the debt ceiling will automatically increase by the amount borrowed during the suspension. Because the government borrows about $4 billion per day, this bill will likely increase the debt ceiling by $400 billion or more, without any cuts or reforms to reduce future spending.

This marks the first time Congress has suspended the debt ceiling, and it’s a significant step toward abolishing the debt ceiling, as some Democrats have demanded. Suspending the debt ceiling (instead of raising it) gives Members of Congress cover, because they can essentially vote for a massive debt ceiling increase now (without a particular dollar figure attached) and later claim they had no idea how much of an increase they were voting for.

Second, the bill includes the misguided and unconstitutional “No Budget, No Pay” provision. If either the House or Senate doesn’t pass a budget by April 15 of this year, that chamber’s respective members will have their paychecks withheld until the chamber passes a budget or until the last day of the 113th Congress, whichever comes first. Current law requires that U.S. Representatives be paid on the last day of each month, so withholding payment is unconstitutional under the 27th Amendment, which prohibits any law “varying the compensation” for current Members of Congress. An important policy behind the 27th Amendment is limiting the power of congressional leadership (and the President) to bribe or blackmail Members of Congress to vote a particular way.

And we can see the importance of that policy here. Contrary to popular assertions, the “No Budget, No Pay” provision doesn’t encourage Members of Congress to “do their job,” it encourages them to vote yes on a particular bill or resolution—in this case a particular budget—even if that legislation is bad for the American people. If they don’t vote yes, then they might not be paid. What’s next? “No Gun Control, No Pay”? “No Tax Increase, No Pay”? “No NDAA, No Pay”? This bill blackmails Members of Congress and sets a dangerous precedent, punishing them for representing their constituents.

It’s also important to note that this bill does not require Congress to pass a budget for Members of Congress to be paid. It requires the House to pass a budget for Representatives to be paid and the Senate to pass a budget for Senators to be paid. If each chamber passes a budget by April 15, then every Member of Congress will be paid on time, despite the fact that no single budget has passed both chambers. In other words, No Budget, Still Paid.

The bill passed 285-144.

If you all aren’t paying attention to Justin Amash, you should. He explains every single one of his votes on facebook.

Did this pass the Senate already?

So when the debt ceiling and cliff are reinstated, should my entire roth and 401k be moved into bonds before hand?

Gahhhhhhh

Zzz. 50 bucks says this doesn’t result in inflation.

Without the new money hitting middle class pockets near term inflation is not likely. Latent inflation is off the charts though, they have printed so much money it’s insane. What timeframe are you willing to bet on? :wink:

In reality what they have done is inflation, when we see higher prices we are seeing the symptom of that.