I don’t think our country could have handled one or more of the big three folding. Without an even earlier and more drastic/violent collapse with more serious consequences.
You are dead on. I am sure with a lot of the other companies but I know for a fact Apple employs skilled US labor and of the 60,000 employees, 40,000 are in the US between its engineering, business operations, and retail store. Only 20,000 are in other countries. The US subsidy for factories here would be great if people can get off their high horses and think just because 10 year ago they made $50/hour for screwing in 4 bolts into a cylinder block all day entitles them to a $50/hour job in today’s market.
I just read that article online a month or so ago, real eye opener.
It all depends on what they are facilitating, they could be fueling growth producing ventures or inflationary ventures. Being high tech alone isn’t justification to command a high salary. The 2nd way inflation can be driven is money velocity, high tech in many cases is inflation driving.
Can you explain why you think that way?? What would have happened if they did fold, in your opinion? What long term consequence might the bailouts have if any?
You can kick an empty can down the road for a LONG time but when you finally stop and pick the can up it’s still empty and now you’re parched from all that wasted kicking. The current government spending plan isn’t growth producing, it’s based on debt with an artificially low interest burden. If they succeed it will be inflationary, if not (and likely either way) they delayed the pain but made the eventual fallout worse. Growth isn’t inflation and inflation isn’t growth.
Somewhat relevant, below is my reply from a discussion I had with a HFT (high frequency trade) quant friend. He believes liquidity and HFT are great for the stock market, I think they are great or horrible depending on your desired end result. Keep in mind I’m a centrist for the most part so I like to understand both sides.
I believe the core issue driving volatility is inflation caused by both economic stimulus & an abundance of liquidity (aka high money velocity). Inflation causes either extra diluted money or artificially over priced money to be deployed into investments, which ends up tampering with markets & pricing. So, inflation & liquidity seem to go hand in hand and if nothing else I feel they end up producing the same result. That is to say both seem to cause elevated volatility while providing limited/no fundamental growth. If we think about this…liquidity isn’t necessarily growth producing, in fact it’s more than likely NOT growth producing. Therefore it is more likely to produce inflation.
My further 2 cents on why liquidity may not be the best thing, it has to do with the 2 way auction and price opportunity. If there’s constant liquidity the market may have elongated balance zones and in some cases never ending price churning. In a natural market there is a price that acts as a cut off for the activity. I guess it’s all how you look at it, like everything in the markets. I think HFT drives prices further away from these balance zones BUT it allows more people to exit on the way down as they desire vs. waiting for the cutoff point where liquidity enters the market.
I wouldn’t say he’s right or wrong because it all depends on what you want from the market.
Had GM failed do you even relize the number ofAmerican jobs that would be lost? Not just the actual plant guys (who i agree with LZ are overpayed for the grunt low skill jobs they have, they gave all unions a bad name. Theres no reason a CAD programmer with a masters degree should be making the same as the grunt turning the same 6 bolts into the same part all day who got the job because his father knew someone 20 years ago), but the people right down the line at axle and steel plants etc.
Just like if Obama had pushed through a medicare for all health plan it would cost America millions of jobs, by pushing for a mandate all those insurance companies are still in business and the people they employ have jobs. I cant stand listening to the talking heads going over bullet points of what America needs, its all an act for the un-educated masses who dont understand the complexities of governing. You cant tax the hell out of companies and expect them to stay here when they can go someplace else and actually compete, and you cant cut government programs which dont turn a profit. If there was money to be made in the private sector giving out welfare and foodstamps they would of already done it. The point of government is to pick up where private industry leaves off (at least in the capitalist system).
If you give people a “way out” they will take it, they will cut wages, get rid of benefit packages, and cut corners at the point of production. Then we will be no different then China painting kids toys with bulk lead paint to save a buck. We need a thriving middle class to buy the products we make and trickle down economics dont work when those with the money are afraid of there own shadow and save every penny they can because they are in constant fear of a market collapse.
If the big 3 folded, we would have room for Foxconn to open up a production facility here.
And when will these companies relize it is cheaper to outsource those jobs? Once these companies have a foothold in the market they will do what every other American corporation has done and move. I just heard a report that GE is now based over seas so they get tax breaks.
What happens when the masses relize tech is the only well paying job left and they all switch over to that career path, when we have a million tech jobs and 10 million qualified workers? Those companies will start lowering wages and slashing any benefits they can because they know they will always find someone to do it cheaper.
But we all collectively pay either way. We can all pay through losing our spending power (which only hurts the working class & poor) or we can all pay through an economic deflation and joblessness. Pick your poison basically, either way there’s pain to be felt. One suffocates the working class long term and one suffocates shorter term but also punishes those that own…TRULY OWN the assets.
GM is producing cars that people are buying on debt. Debt upon debt upon debt. See why they are “too big to fail” yet or no? Crony capitalism can’t be illustrated any better than our situation right here in America. America…FUCK YEAH!!!
its sickening how many people dont realize how fucked america is right now.
im one of the few that actually pays more for better quality. as a result theres less money in my savings, but im also not the typical “american” that has shit tons of debt. my debt is the debt that can be paid off that month if i have to. i try to stay strictly cash only for everything i buy. that way when things do get worse, i wont be feeling the pain as badly. its a simple pricipal of living within your means. as for my 401k, i have one that is being contributed to, however i dont look at it. i dont want to know lol
more taxing is not the answer. cutting the fat is the answer.
i really like blue eyed devil’s signature. :tup:
It’s not about doing it cheap lol
They outsource shitty help desk jobs they know how to keep/retain/pay talent and if the US is where those qualified people are they will keep it there.
The concept again is not everyone ends up being middle class
On the GE thing they just built a huge Information Security center to test all of their products and security in Virginia.
It would have been very drastic and violent but that would have been ancient history by now. Many of the experts who had predicted what has happened also said it would take 3 years to climb out of the depression if we did not have the gigantic bailouts. Instead we are slaves of the debt for the next 100 years or whatever.
That being said, the bailouts are a drop in the bucket compared to the other debt which brings us back on topic… THE CRIMINALS HAVE TAKEN OVER WASHINGTON DC.
The bailouts were not to save anyone but the targets of rioters which would be the politicians.
But there buisness address is a P.O. box in sweden or norway, i didnt fact check this i just heard it mentioned so it may be bullshit. They were saying GE and its subsidiaries are one of the biggest employers of Americans but they only pay a fraction of the taxes they should because the corporate office was overseas. The entire “corporate office” employs like 3 people or some shit, but because they can exploit this loophole they dont have to pay billions in tax dollars.
Back on topic though i dont think this could ever become a reality, the entire reason for getting a 401k is to save pre-tax income for retirement because of the lack of jobs offering pensions. I dont see how anyone would allow them to tax the same money twice without it changing hands. The banks have to much power to allow this, they know if it happened that 401k’s would disappear and a portion of there gambling capital would be lost.
It would have been very drastic and violent but that would have been ancient history by now. Many of the experts who had predicted what has happened also said it would take 3 years to climb out of the depression if we did not have the gigantic bailouts. Instead we are slaves of the debt for the next 100 years or whatever.
That being said, the bailouts are a drop in the bucket compared to the other debt which brings us back on topic… THE CRIMINALS HAVE TAKEN OVER WASHINGTON DC.
The bailouts were not to save anyone but the targets of rioters which would be the politicians.
Had the government just used they money to pay off the debt of the individuals who were losing there homes it would have been a better solution, the people would of been freed of massive debt and could of freed up massive amounts of disposable income to buy new products that would have created a manufacturing boom and led to millions of new jobs. The banks would have billions of bad debt cleared off their books and the money would of ended up with them anyways. Im not saying this is a good idea, just better then handing the banks a trillion dollars with no stipulations for them to continue their shady business practices and still hold those people in debt to the debt that is drowning them. It was the banks fault for handing out sub-prime loans to welfare mothers who they knew could never pay it back, at least in this solution those people got to keep their houses.
I could just imagine the outcry from reasonable individuals who would be pissed they lived within their means and didn’t acquire any debt because they couldn’t afford it, and they would be right to bitch but like i said before it would be better than just handing over the money to pay out bonuses to bank CEO’s.
You’re like me…not burdened by debt. If they continue to inflate, our game plan will backfire and fuck us in the ass. Inflation makes debt easier to pay off at the expense of savers…assuming the average wage notices a benefit from the inflation of course. We have employment issues and a stagnant wage problem to deal with though, which is why I’m not fully secure in investing for an inflationary environment yet.
I will say I feel the stimulus and stupid low interest could be bubble inducing or cause another crash depending on how the job situation pans out. The questions of the decade (maybe even of our dynasty)…will people continue to sign up for debt and will they be able to pay on both their new & old debt? We already know the answer the the 1st question, Americans LOVE debt. The 2nd question isn’t fully answered yet but my honest inclination is no, I don’t believe there are sufficient job opportunities and I don’t believe the stimulus has reached the debtor’s hands.
There are a few other big issues we’re facing beyond the above. We have a major baby boomer crisis playing out involving both next gen population decline and the boomers failure to shift to safe investments & fixed income lifestyles. Many boomers aren’t retiring because of the above mentioned failure to scale back and because some are making too much money to walk away. Let’s not forget about skyrocketing fixed expenses like medical, energy costs and housing as well.
One focus should be getting the wealthy to invest in OUR economy again and to create fundamentally sound jobs. The other big focus should be trying to get the corruption and bloat out of government, streamline those fuckers. Instead they taunt the masses with the “Buffett rule” leading us to believe we can punish the rich and make America strong again. This was why I didn’t like OWS, they were demanding debt forgiveness and handouts when they should have been demanding JOBS! I don’t want MORE money going to the spend happy, elitist catering government, that won’t benefit the nation one bit. Taxation isn’t leading to an investment in our nation, it’s leading to furthering the system which enabled the current wealth disparity in the first place.
Politicians…exactly Blue! They are the crooks, not the capitalists. OWS should have been ODC. Wall street aren’t elected and don’t owe us anything. Politicians are supposed to rep the people and are elected to do so.
^^Don’t underestimate the govt, all they have to do penalize corporations if they don’t have 100% match on 401k. BAM! Now the corporations are evil if they don’t match contributions 100%. Are you starting to understand how they operate in DC?
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Here is a nice little factoid: Most people don’t mind paying for infrastructure and defense with their taxes. All personal income tax collected pays (not even) interest on our debt, corporate taxes pay for infrastructure and defense.
They all do the offshore tax loophole shit. There is a building in the Caymans that is home to hundreds of companies’ “headquarters”… it is basically just a big mailroom.
Speaking of loopholes, they are even written for one company specifically. For example: If the corporation has only the letters G and E in its name and was incorporated on (fill in the blank) date.
I am pretty sure I can’t take advantage of that loophole.
It is criminal.
Meh…so you’re saying the government is looking for a way to get at the wealthy/corporations? I think that’s one area we might differ in belief…I view the government as one with those same corporations. They are all in bed together and they take care of each other at the expense of the private citizens quality of life. The main reason they created ERISA & 401k’s was because fixed retirement (pensions) were no longer going to work given the population decline. I assume it was a HUGE bonus that they could force private citizens into money management, understanding how foolish we tend to be.
You’re also leading this off with a faux news report which is about as good as used toilet paper. Everything in election year preparations is posturing and a huge mind fuck. I don’t believe they are going to go after 401k’s in terms of taxes. It wouldn’t do much good if any, to get the money up front. If anything, given their desire to produce inflation it would be foolish to capture that revenue now…unless they covertly are planning on deflation. The rich stand too much to lose in deflation and they pay the government well to keep their investments safe. I don’t believe they will let the rich fall from grace…it makes no sense given their partnership.
That right there is why the middle class is dying, they dont have enough to overcome inflation, and have just enough to not justify wage increases in the eyes of their employers. As the cost of living goes up their wages dont buy what they used to and they usually end up finding another job to maintain there lifestyle and stay above water.
I think they should implement a “living” minimum wage, something high enough that anyone working 40 hours a week can afford to live with only 1 job. If they implemented say a $15 an hour minimum wage people would only need 1 job to pay their bills and therefore millions of available jobs would open up, allowing others to find work. This could kill small business so you also have to implement tax breaks and subsidies for those who pay out lets say 85% of the money they make in salary. Give them tax breaks for to lessen the individual burden and subsidies like they do with farmers to keep their business in the black. They also would need to implement tariffs in order to “even the playing field” with competition but when people have more money they spend more creating more jobs for those in demand products. Do you really think the average person would nickle and dime every purchase if they had enough to pay their bills and feed their family? The only ones adversely affected by this would be the wal-marts of the world who pay more to a top CEO then almost the entire grunt workforce, top level people would need to take a cut but the average worker who is actually bringing in the money would be much better off.
^^Well admitedly I am a bit jaded. You wouldn’t beleive the OSHA bullshit I am going through right now with things like coffee makers at my company. WTF?!?
^ I would be out of business tomorrow. We need less govt not more. The more we have gotten the weaker our country has gotten.
Our 2012 budget requires $10.4 Billion per fucking day. I dunno what tax revenue brings in but it sure as hell isn’t on par with the debt they have strapped us to. 
Military is a MONSTROUS expense and it fucks with the GDP calculations something fierce IMO.
What’s your take on this behavior? The US is making it hard for them to not want to cheat the system, don’t you think?
http://www.soxfirst.com/30394498/dont_be_evil_googles_tax_evasion.php
Google, one of the prior mentioned “growth” companies is also a loopholer. If the holes are in the tax code they are there for a reason as I see it.
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You’re a “small business” though not a corporation that can fund the greedy cocksuckers. They claim to be all for small biz yet they rape you guys every chance they can and in devastating fashion. 8/