Did I say too high? I meant the lowest in 50 years. Damn Obama and his tax hikes.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm
OBAMA = BIG GOVERNMENT! HIGH TAXES! SOCIALISM! THE TEA PARTIES SAID SO! Oh wait, the deficit isn’t due to out of control spending. It’s because we don’t tax enough.
yeah, instead of high taxes, we have insane government debt
wooo hoo
“Oh wait, the deficit isn’t due to out of control spending. It’s because we don’t tax enough.”
Seriously, did you make it beyond third grade?
“I don’t have too much credit card debt, I just don’t make enough to pay for it.” :bloated:
Do you honestly believe Barry cares about off debt?
You can be taxed visibly…or you can be taxed via inflation…or BOTH of course.
- Anyone that says Obama raised taxes is a dummy.
- Anyone that pins the current situation solely, or even the majority on Obama is a dummy. BUSH signed the bailouts. Clinton and Greenspan were MAJOR culprits. Nixon removed the gold standard!
- I dislike Obama so don’t confuse point 1 and 2 as me liking the prez. Facts are facts though. LOL
Added—
I want to say I SORT of agree with the not taxing enough. I feel the wealthy don’t pay enough tax. There should be FLAT taxes so EVERYBODY pays their fair share. No creative accounting and loopholes that allow the rich to skip out and stick the working class with the bill…as it always has been thusfar.
If there was a flat tax, I don’t think the middle class would be so prominent. You would have to tax the fuck out of everyone if it were evenly spread.
Wealthy people make their money from capital gains. They pay 15% income tax AFTER all of the deductions they get creative with. The grunts that make their tires and cash them out at the store pay a higher real percentage. And the inflation argument…you can think whatever you want about the future but we’ve seen flat prices to slight DEFLATION since Obama took over so nope…not yet.
Why do you think we have not seen inflation yet?
I’m amazed this thread hasn’t gone up in flames yet.
I agree Joe. The purpose of the bailouts and stimulus packages was to shunt DEflation. They effectively back filled the lost money supply and then some. The inflationary effects won’t be seen for a bit I would think. Maybe when they raise interest rates from free to merely cheap? LOL. Without constant inflation there will be massive defaults. How else can loans be paid back WITH interest? If you have a billion in fixed money supply and you lend that with interest, where does interest come from? The sky? They MUST dilute the currency and they CANNOT allow deflation of any large magnitude. The house is built out of a deck of cards and can collapse quite easily.
To my other point. If there was a flat tax the wealthy would be less prominent. Flat taxation would mean less tax burden for the poor and middle class. The wealthy surely pay a great amount of tax, but not an equal & fair amount when compared to working class person. Paying “alot” doesn’t show relative figures in the least. I think we also agree here Joe. If I’m reading your reply correctly we’re on the same page.
But. But. But… Well, OK maybe not yet. Well, I thought we were fucked. But if we’re not fucked now we’re gonna be fucked REAL SOON! Mark my word!
LOL…WUT???
I think Fry is mocking me. :gotme:
Has anyone else noticed a large increase in their fuel bill very recently? Cost per unit up more than 10% in one month? Funny this happened at the end of heating season and not the start.
Traderbase, I don’t know how to take your statement about “The wealthy surely pay a great amount of tax, but not an equal & fair amount when compared to working class person.” Do you think the wealthy should pay more while almost half this country pays zero, zilch, nada? Do you believe in trickle down economics?
The deflation/inflation argument is null at this point. He’s been in office for 1.5 years so it will be a little while to make big changes in that. And inflation isn’t necessarily a bad thing. All healthy economies have it. Deflation is actually something to be scared of because of how it effects other things.
Stop the handouts and free rides for people at the expense of the taxpayer. 1 out of every 3 people pay zero federal income tax for 2009.
More like punish the people that work so people that don’t have a ‘fair’ chance.
Inflation and deflation are both healthy when the periods alternate and the cycles are permitted to complete giving the economy ebb & flow.
Force feeding new debt to stop deflationary periods from completing is anything but healthy…LONG TERM. A tourniquet will stop the bleeding if your arm is severed but it’s not a long term solution.
We have a hard choice to make…an inflationary or deflationary depression is in store someday. IMO the fed clearly is not willing to let deflation do it’s thing and allow the economy to revert to it’s mean.
As we continue to make the markets and economy try to be something they’re not (fundamentally sound) the volatility will continue to increase and working class nest eggs will be ripped out from beneath faster than ever before. Timing is everything in today’s economy, not unlike musical chairs. You don’t want to be the one acting like an arrogant American when there is far fewer chairs available than needed. LOL
Deflation, proper deflation, would be crushing at first (to a nation of expectant and spoiled folks). Deflation though, would level the playing field to an extent for working class piss-ants like myself. Lower the cost of living, the cost of wages, the cost of housing in exchange for some VERY lean times. I think it wouldn’t be as horrible as most imagine. This country has so many resources it’s insane. A deflationary depression would be good for the long haul, but this is America after all and why should we feel deprived when we can just charge it to the future generations?
FWIW…I never said inflation/deflation was tied to the president. There is no single source or cause for the issues we face today, it’s cumulative. The biggest culprits would have to be Nixon, Clinton and Greenspan in reality. And maybe Edward Bernays who is often credited with creating the PR and commercialism movement. Consumers play a MASSIVE role as well…make no mistake about that!
Blue…I don’t believe people should be punished for being wealthy or having success. I DO think they should pay their fair share instead of sticking the brunt of taxation to their workers and the low folks on the wealth totem pole.
In short…NO WAY should all taxes be paid by the rich. They give workers jobs and are biz owners are crucial to any economy. If you remove the motivation for owning a biz and becoming a success (profit) who will bother, and then where will jobs come from?
I’m talking about taxes paid as a % of income…TRUE taxes paid assuming loopholes were closed. A flat tax would accomplish balance and would reverse/offset the insanely lopsided wealth distribution our country has now. Also I think de-regulation of markets is not possible and there can never be a 100% FREE market, sadly. But that said I do think we should de-leverage and remove the derivative contracts because they enable incredible manipulation and have a heavy hand in the volatility we see today. Leveraged contracts are just a make believe valuation and they often impact the true underlying asset negatively. If nothing else they push volatility into vehicles that some would like to use for long term investments and retirement accounts. Not everyone wants to be a trader, but the markets almost make it so you MUST be a trader to stay alive.
Not you specifically. Just every chicken little squawking about the sky falling.
You only have to look at NY to see what his health care plan is going to cost the nation. You’re getting hints at it when you hear talk of a VAT tax. Why are they discussing a VAT to pay for it when it’s supposed to save us money? Oh yeah, because it’s not going to save us money and they know it.
Add on top if that a cap and trade bill that will be a huge tax increase and it really doesn’t matter how low our taxes are RIGHT NOW. And what about if we give the millions of illegals living here amnesty and they suddenly qualify for all the government programs for the poor? People aren’t protesting the taxes RIGHT NOW, they’re protesting because they have enough common sense to see that we are heading in the wrong direction.
And if you think that’s being chicken little, maybe you should sit your smug self down and think about the numbers behind this for a little while longer. You may realize the sky actually is starting to fall.
Cynicism is not a virtue…
Cynicism tends to describe or imply an attitude of jaded negativity.
Optimism is not a virtue anymore than Cynicism is.
Find a balance somewhere in between if you want to be part of reality. Otherwise you’re living in a fantasy world and you’re off balance.
And of course, were only talking about peoples nest eggs, the future generations quality of life and overall financial well being here. Why should we be guarded or cautious at all? Casino time baby…all in!
I think the progressive tax code has the right idea but all types of income need to be treated the same. I wouldn’t want necessarily a flat tax rate for everyone, but a flat tax for cap gains, wages, royalties, etc. Why do we punish people that actually work for their income? Not to mention that USGAAP allows all kinds of accounting tricks where corporations and business owners can bring in billions in income and claim a paper loss to avoid paying any tax.
There are a lot of flat tax ideas out there, ranging from good to very bad. The worst is the Mike Huckabee flat sales tax, which basically gives people incentive to screw the economy and NOT spend any money, and allows the rich miser to escape paying anything. I actually like the VAT tax, because there’s no way around it, and it treats everyone equally. Whether it added to or subtracted from people’s tax burdens all depends on the rates and such, but it would shift the burden more fairly at both ends of the spectrum. Those who pay NOTHING right now cause they don’t make enough would be paying something, those who pay far too little at the top due to tricky accounting would be paying more, and some of the weight on the backs of the guys in the middle comes off.
Ask around at your average tea party rally about taxes RIGHT NOW, and i imagine you’ll get nothing like the answer jay claims they stand for.