http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/
Profitability per Vehicle
<i><b>Source:</b> 2005 Harbour Report</i>
<b>GM:</b>
Loses $2,331 per vehicle
<b>Toyota:</b>
Makes $1,488 per vehicle
The end.
UAW needs to DIAF.
Hence my remark about boiling down to operation costs…
Yep. Their cars are fine, good even. Same with their sales. Less cost. More profit. If a bailout will help them achieve that then great. If they need Chapter 11 to be able to trim the fat, then great. I’m not convinced which one is better.
That’s where I just can’t find solid ground. I really don’t know that they can become profitable by changing their operations if they get this bailout. If they have taken this long to make changes and haven’t succeeded, what’s to say that they will before this bailout money runs out, and they are still a sinking ship?
And obviously, the UAW has a huge part in this.
Well there have been some changes. GM took like a 40 billion loss last year IIRC to off the legacy healthcare of retirees onto the union. So they’re probably just arguing that they need more time for changes to work. Maybe they do maybe they don’t. :shrug:
And yeah, the UAW is definitely the bad guy in this story. I’m not convinced that they’re the greedy assholes killing the industry that the media makes them out to be. Maybe they are, but I’m not totally convinced.
There is so much anti-union spin being put out there by Southern Republicans right now it’s ridiculous. Particularly those who subsidize foreign non-union plants in their states.
imagine that, anti-union politicians supporting non-union shops?
Imagine that, Southern Republicans smearing their political opponents with lies.
:lol: :lol: biased people are funny
edit: back on topic, the UAW needs to go… period.
Disagreed. Even if a UAW plant had identical pay/benefits/etc. to a non-union shop, the haters would still blame them for issues and say they had to go.
well, you can only cry wolf so many times. I think a majority of the population (haters) stopped feeling sorry for them a while ago… so why keep them?
I’m not for leaving folks high and dry. Let them run out their contracts, get rid of the job bank TODAY, offer buyouts and ride it out. All new employees = non-union staff.
Yup. Toyota pays their employees just as much, if not more than GM. And they do not have a Union.
But there are more retired Gm employee’s so it costs GM more either way.
AFAIK, they also don’t pay their employees 90% of their pay to sit on their asses while the company doesn’t need them.
also, last I read, the average toyota employee made around 5.00 less an hour than UAW average… who knows what that is now. I wonder how the benefits stack up side by side too (heath insurnace, 401K/retirement, vacation times, lawyer perks, ect)
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-GM-Vs-Toyota-Wages-And-Benefits.aspx
not very specific, but pretty much sums things up
Right. That is why it all comes back to operation costs, like I originally stated. The way operations are set up in a Toyota plant, the option to fuck around and do nothing simply isn’t there. I know this first hand.
As far as benefits: My dad, who used to work for GM and is now working for Toyota has the same benefits as before. Whenever the UAW (or CAW in Canada) tries to get the workers to join, Toyota matches anything that they are fighting for anyway. This is why they have been able to keep them out. No one votes for them.
The retirement part is probably a significant factor, though. I didn’t think of that.
EDIT - and the link you posted pretty much confirms that…
Toyota is going to go through the same shit as they get more mature in this country. Watch and see. Union or no union.
yup… if you do that in a union shop, file a grievance with the UAW and you’re set… do that in a non-union enviroment, your ass is out the door. Having known a lot of people that have worked at GM and Ford, it’s really amazing to hear stories on how fucked that system really is… I’m sure your old man has a few, having worked for GM
It’s incredible. What is really amazing is to hear and see the COMPLETE OPPOSITE at Toyota. Where people get fired for being pieces of shit and escorted out by police. (not kidding)