I’ve been riding off and on since my mid teens old and even with some odd ~15 years of occasional riding I would hardly call myself an experienced rider due to the lack of continual experience on a bike. I took an MSF course many years ago, but since that time have maybe ~20-30 hours of total ride time.
I’ve been tossing around the idea of buying a bike again and while I’ve never actually put a road bike down at speed I’ve come close a few times to low siding. I’ve fallen from and dumped dirtbike more time than I can remember though, mostly just doing stupid shit. My biggest fear though is high siding a bike, but more importantly not knowing what to do to try and avoid it as much as possible.
In vids and pictures I’ve seen of this phenomenon in action I understand the basics of it, but not what’s leading up to it. So what the hell occurs in the seconds prior? From what I can see in some recent vids posted in this section, it appears that one riding through a corner loses rear traction and backs off the throttle but then simultaneously counters the turn only to upright the bike violently, getting tossed like a rag doll.
In personal preference I’d say I’d think I’d rather lowside a bike all day long vs going up and over one, even at really low speeds. I’m not afraid TO fall and slide suited up like tony stark in iron man armor if in the event it ever did happen
I know all this shit happens in mere seconds, but it’d be nice to know what leads up to such and event and what to do to avoid and react to it if it ever does happen(even if it means lowsiding the bike to get out of it).
I dunno, just thought I’d ask here since I know I’d get good answers from friends vs asshats on a typical bike forum.
Well the back end sliding out is not the only way for you to high side, another VERY common way for it to happen in motorcycle racing is when the rider “tucks” the front wheel going into a turn.
A lot of pro riders will slightly counter steer the front wheel which makes it easier for the bike to lean over in a turn but takes a lot of practice to get it down.
Result of counter steering however would be low siding b/c you would push the wheel out, and tucking the wheel is the exact opposite and it generally happens when the rider is getting ready to apex the turn and get back on the throttle hard and will come out of the counter steer a bit to quickly causing the bike to buck like your on a bull and at the point you pretty much hang on for the ride and pray you don’t break anything.
I definitely ride within my ability, but then you gotta push that a bit to learn more. I’m not a wheelie/stunt person, just doesn’t fancy me. But ripping on a/the bike through the turns like you should does and I’m not afraid to put a bike over on it’s side. I definitely don’t ride as aggressively as most here, but have laid a bike over pretty good on occasion to warrant me questioning the tires at hand :ohnoes (not that I really need to). My idea of having a bike over on it sides is nothing in comparison to what most do anyway.
Has anyone here ever high sided?
I’ve never tried countersteering in a turn. Guess I never had the balls to actually try it because it seems so unnatural to do so. Probably don’t even get a bike over far enough to warrant doing so(???) This is all just coming from someone who has little experience putting a bike down, and just looking out for what I should expect. I know that if I pussyfoot it the chance of it ever happening is next to zilch, but pussyfooting isn’t in my dictonary of things to to.
I’ve been through the whole super bike craze and still like them, but am looking more towards something like a monster, or similar crusier/sport type frame bike. Vlad’s frakenstein SV is what pushed me into thinking about getting back onto a bike again :vlad
Afaik past certain speed any two wheeler stops steering by turning the wheel like a car, and starts doing it by leaning. Lean is always achieved by turning the steering (slightly) the opposite direction of the lean direction. So we all countersteer except in low speed maneuvering. Don’t buy a liter ss and you won’t have to worry about high-siding :ohnoes
You counter steering at anything over 10 miles an hour or you don’t just dont turn where you want to go, what do you mean you “started” to counter?? You literally have to.
Back to original question most common way is to have your rear slide out, chop the grottos closed, suddenly get traction back and have the bike launch you like a Trebuchet.
I haven’t high sided but came close a number or times in first years of riding in the rain on a crappy Dunlop D208. I would get on it exiting turns and go through the turn backing it in, however traction would be sketchy and the rear end would go past the straight position on the way back going into essentially a snap overstate situation. With the back end being very sideways if I caught traction at that moment me and bike would be done for. Ever since those days I swore by Pilot powers and traction in rain was never a problem again.
Adam what are you doing tomm? I could swing by and have a chat.
I’m going to be at the shop tomorrow doing a CF sunroof panel for Eric, 2pm I have to swing the Evo down for an inspection appontment but it’s only a few mins away from the shop, then somewhere around 2:30pm cossey is shooting up with the M3 and dropping it. I have to bring him back to his house thereafter so he can run some errands of his own, but will be back at the shop thereafter.
A buell is definitely on my list, but I’m a very tall guy and every buell I’ve been on and/or ridden I’ve felt a little cramped. If the frame was a couple inches lonfer I don’t think it’d be an issue at all. I have contemplated buying one and relocating the footpegs and making a different seat/seat riser to give me the leg room I’d need.
I love those bikes though. A xb9 or 9R Firebolt is very high up on the list. Pete has an XB12 up at KTA that’s an f-ing brute.
If you ignore such incident is cause by poor road surfaces. A high side is usually not cause by what a rider didn’t do, but what he/she overdid. Sometime it is simpler to think of it from the other end, like doing a maze puzzle.
Ask yourself, as a rider, what you will need to do to induce a high side? Then work backwards and you will find the cause of it.
Acceleration induced:
At lean, rider broke rear traction under acceleration by applying power, causing the rear to “break” traction.
“Survival Reaction” took over and try to slow down by quickly closing or “chop” the throttle.
Weight abruptly transferred forward reducing rear contact patch and the rear will continue to slide.
As the bike rotates to a point where rear tire slip angle had increased to a point where the cg of the bike no longer causing the tire to slide, it will transition to a tip over, or the high side.
The cure is as soon as you detect a slip in the rear under acceleration; cease continue to accelerate but maintain throttle position. Smoothly bring the bike up from lean by countersteer. As the bike being brought from lean, the rear contact patch will increase and so will traction. You will most likely ran wide, but you will keep the bike under control.
Deceleration induced:
At lean, rider lost rear traction under deceleration by braking, causing the rear to “lose” traction.
“Survival Reaction” took over and rider froze and continue to apply the brake/brakes.
Weight continued being transferred forward reducing rear contact patch and the rear will continue to slide.
As the bike rotates to a point where rear tire slip angle had increased to a point where the cg of the bike no longer causing the tire to slide, it will transition to a tip over, or the high side.
The cure is as soon as you detect a slip in the rear under deceleration; cease deceleration by smoothly releasing brake pressure and transition to apply power to transfer weight back to the rear and smoothly bring the bike up from lean by countersteer. As the bike being brought from lean in addition to weight being transferred back, the rear contact patch will increase and so will traction. You will most likely ran wide, but you will keep the bike under control.
From observations, it seems that on the street most highsides are caused by bad low-speed throttle control. So you can prevent that by being cautious with the throttle.
Those highsides that you see racers doing is somewhat rare on the street. Street tires don’t offer much “feel” so when they go… they go, and you end up lowsiding before you even have a chance to chop the throttle off.
I was riding at sunset in cool temps. w/worn out tires , when i attempted to pull out into traffic,after a 1/2 hr. break, i gave it too much gas for the cold rear tire to grip, next thing i knew i was lying on the ground w/ the wind knocked out of me.
The bike faired really well compared to me, as i flew up in the air & landed on the gas tank.
I have been riding this bike for 10 yrs. & i guess i just became a lil complacent, as this(highside) has never happened to me before.
I have a couple broken ribs & the pain is unbelievable, hopefully it will reside in a couple more days.
I high sided a buddys DRZ on this hard 90 deg turn on the loop we ride off rt5 in scotia. Its this back road, and a 15mph rated 90 deg with nice freshly paved road… no houses so we used to fuck around back there. I could back in my 625 like a bad ass, in my head… and he couldnt figure it out and said it was his bike. I took it for a rip and did it. My 625 I would be hard on the front brakes, go from 4th into 2nd and feather the clutch and rear brake to start the slide and not lock up the rear tire, get it pitched out and leaned in, then once I square up the turn, I am off the clutch/rear brake and getting back on the power, usually powersliding slightly out of it. Well attempt #3 I dove in hotter, I sent his bike way out, got off the clutch / got back on the power and had zero power slide and it dead hooked once the rear tire speed matched the road and sent me over the top. granted it was around 20-25mph, and I landed on my hip/side/back and rolled away… it fuckin hurt! lol nothing happened to the bike, that wasnt already scratched/bent. My problem was unweighting it committing to changing the CG assuming I would still have wheel spin, but didnt! And I was fucking around like an idiot to begin with.
On the dirt, I highsided my motocross/super cross bikes plenty of times. A few were bombing into a turn hard on the breaks and the ass end unweights and steps out, and catches a rut, hooks and sends me. Railing a turn/berm, hooking a rut and pitching me. Worst ones are the high speed straights, where your hard on the gas fighting for traction out of a long sweeping turn, you are trying to keep it straight, stay tight to the inside so you dont get passed, plant the power to pull away, etc… and it just sorta fish tails hooking sliding hooking sliding, then outa nowhere it slides alot and hooks hard, good by! top of 5th I highsided hard on a track and it knocked me right out, and I rag dolled a ways! Just remember to keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times… or you will have some fiberglass work on your limbs for 4-8 weeks!
Honestly if you dont ride TOOO hard, the chances are slim. Its all muscle memory, the more it slides around “naturally” different ways, your brain stores it to its onboard “RAM”. Then when it happens again milliseconds your brain accesses that memory and reminds you not to chop the throttle, or panic brake.
