Honda ECU suggestions...

Shift518 Automotive
1

Hey guys, I’ve been piecing together parts for a good couple of years now- and my eventual plan is to throw a set of itb’s on my D16a6.

I’ve got a socketed P28 ecu (OBD1 '95 Civic Si/EX), but have yet to set up a basemap (working on doing a ‘reasonable’ conversion from my OBD0 maps), and trying to figure out how much ‘useful’ road tuning I’ll be able to do so it won’t cost me too much in dyno/tuning time- not even sure yet where I’m actually going to take it.

So the parts I’ve got:

-Throttle body assembly and both sets of injectors off a 2005+ CBR1000RR (still need to work on spacing/alignment issues)
-hacked OBX intake with rubber couplings
-set of OBD1 injectors
-a socketed P28
-Innovate LC-1
-Moates Ostrich v1
-Moates BURN1 chip burner and a pile of chips
-Crome Free w/ ITB Tools or equivalent (eventually Crome Pro if needed)
-decent laptop

Granted it’s not a ‘new’ or ‘original’ idea by any means, but oddly enough- the wealth of information I’ve found have been for mini-me swaps, (native) VTEC, and FI motors. There are few guys with a similar setup, but distributorless, proprietary standalones, etc., or some other variance that’s just far enough off what I have to work with or can get readily. I’ve toyed around with my current OBD0 PM6 ecu using Turboedit and BRE, and have done a little bit of tuning/logging/tuning/logging, etc., so it’s not that I don’t enjoy it.

My question is- is it really worth going through all this with open-source software- or should I just suck it up and buy a Hondata S300, or something else? I really like working with open source software and have learned alot from researching everything. I spend most of my day at work with open source software and enjoy it- but what point is it that you’d just say screw it; it’d be cheaper if I just bought an S300/AEM/other-proprietary-engine-management in the first place?

Better yet, without lumpy cams, headwork, etc., is it worth the time/money/hassle of getting ITB’s on my car? Should I just pick up some big-name plenum-type manifold? I’m limited to the SCCA Solo C Street Prepared ruleset, so there’s all sorts of things I can do, as well as can’t do. (Insert SCCA-rules comment here) I’m just trying to keep going on this without really getting discouraged too much.

Any serious - or semi-serious for that matter - suggestions are greatly appreciated.

2

I am not familiar with Hondas in this regard but consider who is around you to help.

For instance, in the 3/S world, there’s a KNOWLEDGEBASE locally of E-Manage/S-AFC/MAF-T so if it was me, I’d be leaning towards that if I wasn’t completely comfortable doing everything on my own. Another local person went with some weird setup and just struggled as he could turn to no one for help.

You also have the luxury of Morgan/Synapse but I prefer to do my own tuning or at least knowing how to make changes if necessary to avoid being dependent on someone else.

3

why not a hondata s200? its pretty similar to the s300 and should be more than enough for what you need (based on what I’ve read). It also helps that your ecu is already socketed

4

I’ve read about as much documentation as I could possibly find in terms of the basis of the software, PGMFI.org, and all the other sites that have software/hardware-relevant info. Lots of documentation, just like any other open-source projects. However, there’s not enough available to me so that I feel entirely comfortable tuning it myself…

You also have the luxury of Morgan/Synapse but I prefer to do my own tuning or at least knowing how to make changes if necessary to avoid being dependent on someone else.

I agree entirely- I understand that this is what these guys do- and they’re good at it- but I really prefer to learn as much as I can about it, eventually be able to do it myself, or at least thoroughly understand what someone has done and make whatever other changes I may need down the road.

What’s even more depressing is all the software and documentation I’ve found on tuning newer Subaru’s- damn. I wish I had an ecu I could just plug a tactrix cable into and tune/log/tune away! No major hardware modding needed, no crazy sensors to figure out how to splice into your semi-ancient hacked ecu’s inputs. That’s the depressing part…

5

Just be glad you’re OBD0 (1) and have no warranty to void. :thumb

6

Kudos for you taking this on instead of dumping it off to Morgan/Synapse for tuning. While there’s benefit to doing that, Morgan probably won’t be there all the time and a car is never 100% tuned. Tweaks ALWAYS occur and it’s just not cost effective to keep bringing it back.

For the most part, tuning is tuning. A person that knows how to tune a car can tune a car. The problem is the software and the little tweaks each platform has. Sounds like you are on the right path seeing what other people think who are local.

7

The s200 can be used (a little more work is involved, not as good results)- but the s300 is the one that comes with (optional) support for ‘alpha-n’ tuning for ITB’s via a blend of MAP- and TPS-inputs.

The sad part was I was all ready to pick up the s200 that b18c_ej8 had for sale a little while back (FS: Hondata s200 -SOLD- , until I found that the general suggestion/requirement was to use the s300 with ITB’s.

Thanks for the input, guys!

8

One of the “free” programs also has ITB software… I forget if it is Neptune or Uberdata or whatever though

9

Definitely- Neptune’s been getting bigger and more commonly supported - I’ve been looking into the cost aspect of it, really. I believe Synapse is a registered (certified or whatnot) tuner for Neptune as well - feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Uberdata is the one option I was really hoping to go with, but it’s pretty much long out of any sort of development loop, and there’s a handful of hacked-up, buggy alpha/beta-versions that partially support logging, partially support ITB tools or an equivalent. I know a couple of guys who have used it with success, but those were much more of a ‘straightforward’ or ‘common’ engine build.

I’ve actually been looking into the possibility of building my own manifold (I have enough of them to hack up for flanges without a problem), using the same premise/design as the H22 or GSR intakes- build something with dual runners (primaries could be thinner/longer for velocity, secondaries could be shorter fatter for volume), use the oem IAB’s for flow control, and have some sort of primary/secondary injector setup. But yeah, that’s a little bit of speculation and theory, at this point.

10

the s300 is ideal for tuning. plug and play, on board datalogging. just hook up the laptop and go. no romulators, no dataloggers. the software is smooth. it is easily the best tuning solution for obd1 hondas. it of course comes at a price higher than the rest, worth it though? definately. when you are buying dataloggers, romulators, etc. it doesnt seem like its too bad of a deal.

neptune is not a free program by any means. the software is only available to licensed tuners, on an invitation only basis. We pay everytime we use the software on a new car. im sure as you know you would not be able to use the software. They do offer an RTP board which comes with its own software. its a bit cheaper at $399 and offers much of what the s300 offers. it has alpha-n tuning capabilities as well.

if you are looking for an easy to use system that doesnt break the bank neptune rtp isnt a bad choice. i use hondata s300 in my personal car.

11

Hence me saying “free”, their websites have free written all over them, but like mostly everything Neptune and other tuning tools aren’t exactly free. Thank you for the great info though.

12

Have you looked into Ectune?

13

Don’t know if you were aware, but the RTP is being discontinued. JR on HRTuning stated that once the last 10 or so boards are gone, there will be no more.

http://www.hrtuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=610&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=210 (second post from the bottom)

14

Well that really sucks! I’m probably going to eventually go with an s300, I guess. The Neptune RTP board looked like exactly what I was looking for, too- with the exception of lacking local storage for on-board datalogging.

It does appear that there will be a better replacement, the ‘Demon’, from Moates, but not exactly sure when that’s going to be available- and according to that string of posts, it will have Neptune software compatibility.

15

www.ectune.com at least look into it