why…buick doesnt make duplication… buick just got some recognition for have the most reliable car or some shit like that.
waaaaa waaa pontiac…buick was pissing on gtos and chevelles in the 70’s and buick pissed on T/A and camaros in the 80’s…
Pontiac isn’t fully duplication, either, and even though their latest performance cars were imports, they still were the only ones selling them here.
I don’t quite understand why GMC wasn’t the first casualty. Anything you can get from GMC, you can also get with a Chevy badge.
i love all the GM off brands. i miss my sonoma with a V8 and by far my favorite car was my firebird formula… not the fastest or the best handling or the best looking but the total package was there. out of 12 or 13 cars and motorcycles i miss my formula the most … period no questions asked. my sonoma was damn close… if it wasnt for how scary it was with the lt16spd in it i would have kept it.
either way i would love to see a pontiac version of the new camaro. pontiac makes the interior lovely and the exterior sexy… and well chicks dig both.
think they’ll be sellin G8’s pretty cheap?
you can say the same thing the other way.
:mrT: i dont drive chevy you crazy fool…its GMC for T
after doin some research pontiac really didnt come up with anything of importance… they put a big engine in a car like a few weeks before the other companies and they get credit for the first muscle car… olds was the one that had all the firsts and important innovations.
I just got an email tonight about “exciting new” Pontiac programs they are starting, I doubt they are going anywhere on Monday
409 bel air 1961
rocket 88
hudson hornet
and the early wedges from dodge all before the gto even was put into production
They should have axed gmc first then Pontiac if it came down to that even i have to admit that pontiac/chevy/gmc almost all had the exact same car with a different badge
no way…old people love this buicks!
Our last 6 new cars have been 5 Pontiacs and 1 GMC. Based soley on my buying history I should be going to a different car company! I prefer our GMC Acadia to the Chevy Traverse (didn’t exist at the time) & the Buick Enclave and may very well have bought a Mazda if the Acadia didn’t exist. But, yeah, it’s hard to survive with that much overlap in product and the current share of the market.
:blah: :blah: :blah:
You are such a tool.
‘Muscle Cars’ built before the GTO:
- 1920s - 1930s most all Duesenburg’s with a Supercharger
- 1948 Tucker had a high power helicopter engine installed in the rear.
- 1949 Hudson Hornet
- 1955 Chevy Bel Air 265 V8
- 1955 Chrysler 300 Hemi
- 1958 Chevy Impala 348
- 1957 Studebaker Golden Hawk - Supercharged 289 in a mid size body. Capable of 170 mph from the factory.
- late 50s Chrysler Hemis
- 1961-1963 Pontiac Super Duty Catalinas - Pontiac owned the drag strip in the late 50s & early 60s.
I know there are many more, but this is all I decided to post here.
The reason the GTO is credited with being the 1st ‘muscle car’ is that it was marketed as such. Any other ‘muscle cars’ built before it were somewhat rare due to low production. In 1964, Pontiac produced 32,000 GTOs. That is just GTOs & not Tempests & LeMans which are the same car. In 1966, they built 96,000 GTOs (again just GTOs). It was a phenomenon that no other manufacturer could repeat, until the later 60’s (and still none of them ever produced that many of one muscle car). This is why the GTO is credited as the 1st muscle car. Buick & Olds had such low production of the 442 & Gran Sports, that they hardly count. The “big” engine that Olds put in the F85 was only 330 cubic inches.
Modern Buicks suck ass. The Buick name should be dropped, right behind Hummer & Saturn. It should be Chevy’s as the cheap car, Cadillacs as the high end car, & Pontiac in the middle with Performance cars. The GMC line can exist as a high end pickup line & heavy duty division. The chevys should just be light duty trucks. Saab will hopefully be bought by someone & return to being a small ‘niche’ company.
:finger:
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again… Buick hasn’t made a car worth its weight in wood as far as aesthetics or performance since the GN. Save for the few supercharged Regals and “GNX’s” of the late 90’s/early 2000’s. They are built solely for the senior citizen of today.
American cars were shitting on cars all over the world in late 60’s/early 70’s. Now they’re having trouble standing on their own two feet. Things change.
MSNBC Right now
BREAKING NEWS: GM to cut 21,000 U.S. jobs, confirms it is scrapping Pontiac brand by end of 2010
GM to announce brand changes, restructuring
Storied Pontiac brand to be axed, more factories and jobs to disappearDETROIT - The storied Pontiac brand is dead and more car factories and jobs are about to disappear — the latest casualties of a massive restructuring plan that GM is counting on to help it stave off bankruptcy protection.
The struggling automaker will announce details of its plan at 9 a.m. ET Monday as it makes an offer to its bondholders to swap debt for company stock. GM owes $28 billion to large and small bondholders, and under Securities and Exchange Commission rules, it must disclose its operational plans when it makes an exchange offer.
Two people briefed on GM’s plan confirmed that it includes the demise of Trans Am sports car brand Pontiac, 83 years after the first Pontiac car was introduced. Within three years, half a million Pontiacs were sold, and the brand quickly grew in popularity, from early models like the Chief and the Master Six Coupe, to the Bonneville convertible, to the GTO — one of America’s first muscle cars and so popular it inspired Ronny and the Daytonas to immortalize it in song.
But efforts in the last few years to market Pontiac as performance-oriented brand failed. The company had said it wanted to keep Pontiac as a niche brand with one or two models, but is buckling under tremendous government pressure to consolidate its eight brands, several of which lose money.
The company also has decided to close more factories than the five it announced in February, the two people said, asking not to be identified because the plan has not yet been made public. But the locations of the doomed factories will not be identified Monday.
One of the people said GM will list specific numbers of blue-collar job cuts, and announce another round of U.S. salaried job cuts beyond the 3,400 completed last week.
Chief Executive Fritz Henderson has said the company will go further and faster in making its cost cuts to reduce the number of cars and trucks it needs to sell to break even. One of the people briefed on the plan said GM will accelerate many cuts previously planned for 2014 to instead take place between now and 2010, although specifics were not available.
The people said GM won’t have much new information on Hummer, Saturn or other brands, including Europe’s Opel. GM has indicated it wants to focus on four core brands, Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick.
Also to be announced Monday will be a target number for dealer reduction, as well as details of GM’s bond exchange offer. Exact numbers were not available Sunday night.
The news conference will include Chief Executive Fritz Henderson, Chief Financial Officer Ray Young, North American President Troy Clarke and Mark LaNeve, vice president of North American sales and marketing.
GM is living on $15.4 billion in government loans and faces a government-imposed June 1 deadline to restructure or go into bankruptcy protection.
The government’s restructuring demands include swapping at least two thirds of GM’s unsecured bond debt for equity in the company. Such a move would help GM straighten out its debt-laden balance sheet.
Chrysler LLC, which is living on $4 billion in government loans and is expected to get $500 million more, faces a Thursday deadline to restructure and ink an alliance deal with Italian automaker Fiat SpA. The government also wants Chrysler to exchange much of its $6.9 billion in debt for equity in the company, but with the deadline fast approaching, Chrysler and its secured debtholders remain far apart.
Both GM and Chrysler also must win concessions from the United Auto Workers union.
The UAW said late Sunday it reached agreement on concessions with Chrysler, Fiat and the U.S. government. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne was in the U.S. as talks continued for the automaker to take a 20 percent stake in Chrysler in exchange for its small-car technology.
lol @ old people arguing over brand names no one under the age of 35 gives 2 shits about.
i am 31 and drive a crown vic and even I said that buicks were old man cars. 
if an old man driving an old man car says that you have an old man car, that’s bad.
GM should keep Cadillac as luxury cars and chevy as lower end cars. GMC, Buick, Pontiac, etc… should be cut. Maybe buick can stay because of the following they have with the old people, but a Caddy could fill that role also.
yep there’s no reason to keep GMC or Pontiac. And there’s no reason they need to make 5 different vehicles all competing for the same market share.
Agreed. They’re just fighting themselves.
you still have yet to point out anything of importance the pontiac came up with. Oldsmobile had several major innovations. Olds put a 455 in their A-body two years before pontiac, buick and chevy. the 68 and 69 Hurst Olds both had 455s. thats the big engine i was talking about.
the first horse out of the gate doesnt always win the race, This rings true for Pontiac. 1st muscle car or not, GTOs often saw tail lights.
The Hurst Olds was not a factory produced car, it was farmed out to a company you may never heard of…HURST. 421’s were put in GTOs in 1964 by Royal Pontiac, that doesn’t mean it was pontiac built.
GM did not allow any of their brands to put anything over 400 cubic inches in any intermediate platform until 1970.
Pontiac had many 1sts…I actually have a link to PMD’s engineering firsts in my home PC if you really need it, but this details Pontiac’s earlier years in racing…
Olds told GM to go fuck themselves basically by sending the cars out to get converted. the cars left olds as 442’s and sent to Demmer Engineering NOT HURST to do the swaps. the hurst olds isnt the same as yenko, royal, sox and martin, grand spalding… they were sold at any olds dealer not just one specific dealer.
thats not a list of pontiac firsts either, its a historical timeline of stuff they did, not things they did before anyone else.
GNX, Hurst Olds, Turbo Trans AM, Aero coupe monte SS, 69 440 6BBL Road runner/superbee were all cars sold through the factory but converted offsite.