… They’re taking your steering wheel in the back seat idea Newman…
Traditionally, the steering wheel of a car and the tires are linked mechanically, giving the driver direct feedback about steering from the tires on the road.
Using “steer by wire”, inputs made by the driver through the steering wheel are transmitted to a computerized engine control unit, which instructs an actuator how to move the tires.
The cars will also have a backup clutch that will link the steering wheel and tires mechanically in the event of any problems, but Nissan hopes this won’t always be needed.
“In the future, if we are freed from that, we would be able to place the steering wheel wherever we like, such as in the back seat, or it would be possible to steer the car with a joystick,” said Masaharu Satou, a Nissan engineer.
"Under the new system, the driver’s intentions are transmitted more quickly to the wheels because of the quick speed of electronic signals, Asai said. "
So my inputs to a joystick, which then have to be interpreted by a computer, which then have to go to an actuator is faster than me just moving something? CONFUSED Maybe they invented a time machine that the joystick, computer, and actuator operate inside.
I think subtle movements could be more quick / pronounced, and it offers potential for infinite or adjustable / variable steering ratios. But I just don’t know how the feedback to your hands would work. I like to feel the road especially in my car.
A feedback loop could be tied in, but it’s very unlikely for a passenger car.
A drive-by-wire system would make driving over bumps or rough roads smoother since those forces won’t translate to the driver. Computers on board will automatically adjust to external forces in order to reach what the driver is commanding the car to do. This is how fly-by-wire planes have been operating since the 80s.
Just another step closer to driving a real car being like sitting at home playing a video game. :sigh:
I get throttle by wire as it makes sense with the need to interact with sophisticated transmissions and stability/traction control. You don’t really get feedback from the throttle pedal, at least not directly through the pedal, so you don’t end up creating a poor simulation of the real world feedback electronically. Plus it’s easy to build in a safety system that simply returns to idle on any system error.
With steering though there is no safe default. You can’t simply default to straight ahead in the event of a sensor failure because the car might be going around a turn in traffic at 60mph at the time. With this limitation you have to build in a redundant backup system that has a direct connection, adding cost, weight and complexity. All for what gain? So I can put the steering system in the back seat? How are you supposed to have proper sight lines to drive sitting behind someone? BMW already figured out how to do variable ratios and speed with electric power steering so that’s a wash between the two systems.
I wonder if the guy who thought the Cross Cabriolet was a good idea is also behind this. It would make a lot of sense then.
The best way to prevent car accidents is to remove the driver. In the future, we will be freed from driving in general.
I’m sure there would be variable feedback in the wheel. people need the feedback. Otherwise it would be like driving an W’s arcade racing game.
I would spin the wheel lock to lock as fast as possible just for fun.
I’m also sure that it can be reliable and safe. It should also make it easier to have the car park itself.
OT: I hate that as an option. If I have a car that can park itself, I do not want to have to be in it.
I want to use my smart phone and park it remotely from inside the house.
You are approaching a turn, a drive by wire steering could communicate with stability control, yaw, throttle and brakes.
Cornering, let’s assume 15:1 steering ratio, optimum tire angle is 5* (to operate at an optimum slip angle), so you want to turn the steering wheel 75*.
You steer 60* you go wide (and then your reaction is more steering input).
You steer 90* your front tires push (where you get some feedback, and tire squeal, your reaction ease off throttle, relax steering input).
Without lane sensing technology the system would never know that you put in too little steering input.
However, in panic situations a driver will put in too much steering input.
So the car is smart, you are dumb, and want to go fast around a corner. Back to optimization of slip angle, more times than not a driver turns the wheel too much and scrubs off speed. So one of three things can happen with a super smart steer by wire:
The car applies brakes to match your steering input (because you are turning too tight).
The car limits the physical steering output (but again without lane sensing technology, my result in a wide turn)
The car provides higher feedback through the wheel when the wheel is turned past an optimal steering angle for a given speed. (Tire have a self aligning moment that provide increasing feedback up until / around the optimal slip angle, then that self aligning moment decreases to a plateau if too much steering is put in. What I am suggesting is have increasing steering moment feedback that increase exponentially when you put in too much input. So in this case could have more feedback than a mechanical system.)
Obviously this is not how the system will work for the general public.
Electric assisted steering o.k.
Safety, there is nothing better than mechanical.
I thought about the idea of steering assisted stability control but there are just too many variables for it to work, at least until the self driving car with a vast array of collision sensors comes along.
Example: You’re going around a turn and slam the brakes, causing understeer. Your lane sensing stability control sees you’re about to plow off into the ditch and assumes it’s because you suck at driving. A quick pulse of the inside brakes, a little more steering input from your steer by wire system and your car sails around the turn no problem… right into a small child who happened to be standing in your lane and was the reason you had decided to take the ditch in the first place.
If I didn’t know you better I would think you honestly thought those were fair comparisons.
Some may say brakes are the most important safety feature but I will go out on a limb and say steering is at least number 2 on that list of things you don’t want to fail.
Edit: Someone asked if my RS6 had no traction control or was it just the light, after driving it a bit I can now confirm I have no traction control. Oh what fun!
(knocks on wood)
road feeling is probably one of the most important thing to have in my eyes, I like the feeling of the road threw the steering wheel with out it I think the driving experience will be ruined. Just like when companies went to drive by wire, lost that response lost that thrill for driving those types of cars equipped with them. When I drove the new genesis the other day i hated not having the feeling under my foot. so I cant imagine not having steering feed back…
Not having a mechanical link to your steering is definitely sketchy. I work with itty bitty control wires all the time. I know how easy they are to nick and short, fall loose, etc. From a safety standpoint I don’t buy into this idea yet.
From a performance standpoint though, it opens up a world of possibilities. One of those possibilities is making the driving experience worse, but it has potential. Sport mode with a tighter ratio? Highway mode that dumbs it down? Link it with traction control to keep you from understeering into a ______? Combine this with like a turbo pressure controller, stability control, traction control, and you have the easy ability to dial in the car to behave however you would like.
Exactly. The electronics can take a plethora of inputs and process them faster than any human to eliminate variables for the driver. That way the driver can focus purely on the line he’s trying to stay on.
On top of that, the computers can trim down the amount of input allowable by the driver. (Something else that aircraft have been doing for decades) Usually not necessary, but an example would be having the electronics stop a driver from going 140 mph and trying to jerk the wheel hard over.
Maybe it could be linked with a magnet and if the power supply fails it “engages” a magnetic positive connection. In other words, when power is supplied it disengages the magnet and is controlled by wire. Kind of a fail-safe type thingy.
Oh what fun!