I’ll gladly tell you that you’re an idiot to your face. Virtually anyone on NYSpeed will tell you the same thing. I’m the same cynical blunt asshole in person.
if money is not an issue the y not get a Quaife it is the best choice out of all the options
I think 99_civic_si might be able to, but if not, tell Alistair I sent you.
I have one. My setup had it in there when I got it. From what I’ve read, anything over 250 whp and they fail.
get the OBX, just have whoever installs it take it apart, clean it up, and make sure it is put together properly.
i had a phantom grip in my old hatch. it wasn’t horrible, but i can’t say i would buy another one.
you do realize that installing the true LSD and installing the phantom grip require the same procedure for about 90% of the install…
The best part about Quaifes is their warranty. Well, the second best part…
I can do everything you have listed and more (if needed) and I’m probably less than half the price of a tranny shop.
And for the obx, when I install those, I take them apart completely. Debur any rough edges, properly install the spring washers (usually wrong from the factory) and retorque and loctite the bolts holding the assembly together (which is also, usually not even close) But it seriously is a good unit as long as it gets the above tlc.
The head engineer for T350 sits 20 feet from me so if you have any serious objective questions let me know and I shall ask.
I know you’re not really heeding our input but, even the FWD GM crowd has a serious dislike for the Phantom Grip.
factory LSD ftw, but if i had to get one Quaife would be my choice, and yea 99_civic_si good guy and knows what he is doing, he is going to install my friends on his maxima
im telling you… the OBX is what you want.
get it from this guy. he will do all the prep for you.
http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=306
this is what happens when you stick with the open diff. bottom line the phantom grip DOES NOT WORK and resorts back to an open diff in a very short while once the metal polishes itself which happens after a few bends.
that this damage occurred after only TWO trips to the dragstrip on a brand new pin.
since you are in an engineering program:
have you calculated the actual torque acting on the spider gears using the gear ratios of the transmission and your estimated torque production? the coefficient of friction of the metal to metal contact of the gear against the PG plate? the actual force, given the tire height, that will overcome the PG? I can tell you right now that it isnt much. i have a few of those spring blocks kicking around the house and i can put one in a differential, jack up one wheel of the car and turn the wheel by hand. they dont do that much at all.
im sure you havent taken into account that the neon gears that the PG acts against, have a lip on them that needs to be machined off. even when machining this off so that it sits flat against the surface of the PG, it still doesnt offer enough friction to hold the gears in place to ensure two wheel peels.
the only way to get these spring block things to work are to remove the axle gears from the diff, weld up the oiling notches in the back of the carrier and machine flat, machine the lip off of the front of the axle gear, machine a little bit off of the PG itself and have custom friction material discs made up to go between the carrier and the axle gears on the backside and between the PG and the axle gears on the front side. you will also need to cut a groove in the diff pin to house needle bearings so the spider gears dont ride on the diff pin itself. since the diff pin is crappy metal, you need at least a tool steel pin to be made up.
dont believe me? fine. ive been working with this differential for a long time. turbododge diffs are exactly the same as the neon minus the neon has a plastic gear pressed on the carrier for the speedo.
the obx is the way to go.
Brian
^^^That looks quiet similiar to the GM FWD diff.
i did not realize this, but now i do
1BADGPGT I know you’re not really heeding our input but, even the FWD GM crowd has a serious dislike for the Phantom Grip.
i am heeding no worries, i did research and my physics 257 lab till about 4am and found many failures, like i said money isnt a problem, so it will either be an obx or quaife, now i just gotta do more research on both of those, and i know the quaife costs more and suppossably is better, but half of yous are siding with the obx
i didnt realli think this thread would get this long
i think the obx is the best for the money, if you make sure it is assembled correctly
lol, imnot gunna mention names since you all know who you are probably shouldnt be offering advice, or atleast putting down products, especially those that have never used them.
There is alot of talk and always has been about how shitty the phantom grip is. if they were so shitty i think they would be outta business by now.
the only person with credibility here is zerodaze since he has used one before.
i never used a phantom grip, however i have used a design from another make thats exactly identicle. I have never had issues with my unit. I literaly have 100’s of launches on my tranny and im sure the owner of the tranny now has done the same with out any issues.
the key to any install is to do it right. the side gears must be sanded/machined prefectly flat and you need the highest rate spring they offer.
follow these simple steps and you should have no problems just like i had no problems.
this is my REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE with the unit. not what ive heard. however if your trannys internals themselves are weak then its not the phantom grips fault.
But just like midless said, id try slicks first. best advise in the thread yet.
obx/and quaife are definately better options but it sounds like youve spent alot already and you might be close to broke. which is understandable. so either save and buy quaife/obx or try the phantom grip. either one is going to help your traction issues.
there are a few pro fwd guys running phantom grips. just a fyi
Yes, yes, don’t listen to me. I’m only a transmission and transfer case engineer. It’s not like they build them here. Oh, wait, they do…lol.
As installed per the instructions, I don’t think it will do crap. As mentioned you need precision machined surfaces. Actually ground surfaces would be better yet. What Brian said about using a friction material is a better idea.
i have one that is the same as a PG but better with the highest spring i can get in there and it will not totally prevent one wheel peels with much steering angle. I used to have a real PG back in the day but I sold it to try the one i have in there now.
they just dont work well on turbododges because of the torque. with a small port cyl head, they wont rev over 6k well stock but they make insane torque. a stock 2.5L with the stock tiny mitsu turbo at 18-20psi will only make 190whp but will pump out 350wtq. there is a guy that rebuilds alot of dodge trannies that did a test with a bunch of those style spring block LSD’s but his webpage is gone. the max he got out of them was 100ftlbs at the axle shaft. he modded a axle/diff so he could clamp one end of it in a vise and turn the other end with a torque wrench. he even experimented with shimming them with small hardened washers to get more force out of the springs. still, 100ftlbs was about the max. now this was 100ftlbs at the center of the shaft. when you take into account the lever arm that the wheel creates, this becomes less effective.
i can see why they might be beneficial in a honda or something that doesnt make insane torque. if the front end of the car is weighted fairly evenly, you dont even need anything, you can get both tires to spin. add the PG shimmed to the max and you can get away with a little more imbalance before you get more wheelspin from one wheel.
another TD guy set out to make the best spring block diff he could. his name was andy and his company was alabama man innovations lol. his block was the one that achieved the highest breakaway torque in the test mentioned above. he also made a tool steel pin for td’s as well which i have in my car. he is a mech engineer for boeing. one of my buddies tried his springs in a phantom grip and it severely bent the PG as it couldnt handle the spring rate. even that AMI block, combined with perfectly machined gears (andy offered them as a package as he couldnt guarantee his unit to work properly otherwise) couldnt totally prevent one wheel peels with slicks in a 3100lb daytona running 13 flat at 105. i know cause i helped install the unit, rebuild the trans and install it in the car and then went to the track.
bottom line, they just dont provide enough friction against the axle gears to prevent wheelspin in all cases. lightweight 1.6-1.8L honda that doesnt come alive till 5k? probably works well. 2.5L lightweight dodge that has 25psi at 3000rpms and makes 400ftlbs to the wheels? not a chance.
i dont care if the pope has one, its not a good choice for the neon he is building.
i also dont care if PG sold 10 gajillion units and has a totally thriving business… FRAM still sells zillions of oil filters and they are crap too. APC still has a thriving business selling junk crap for ricers.
the OBX may be chinese cheap machinery but it works as well as a quaife for 600$ less and is proven to work every time even in a corner.
Brian