Bass Pro is a go

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41

Sorry, the last thing we need is more shovel ready sites. What needs to happen is not to demolish these buildings, but hold the owners responsible for the condition, establish a master plan for urban renewal and design in the city, and offer more incentives to draw companies to the city. Change the city charter so the same incentives that are in place for renovating buildings into rentals can be used for apts/condos for sale.

There is a VERY low vacancy rate for class A office space, we need to get more of these old buildings renovated and turned into Class A Space. Look at the Larkin building on seneca, here is a building in the middle of nowhere and its 95% full, and creating its own little vibrant area all on its own.

Lets get rid of government sponsored housing and start offering rental vouchers.

Lets kill three birds with one stone and get rid of the projects off of the 190 near the casino site and use that area for a new stadium/event center/convention center. Lets make it 55,000 seats so we can actually sell out games, make it a dome (that can be open for bills games), but allows us to use it for other events (what good is a building used 12 times a year?!), and also incorporate a convention center into the mix. This is a much better location, since there is multiple major arteries that we can access the stadium by, its a lot more convenient for Rochester and Ontario fans, and will spawn a ton of offshoot development, not to mention getting rid of some terrible 1950’s goverment sponsored housing experiments (projects).

Overall we need to support good urban design, and create a master plan that is turned into actual code for the city, we need to make Buffalo walkable again. If we are going to tear something down, lets make sure we are replacing it with something as significant or better. We don’t need to tear down great urban buildings that need some TLC to putup a single story Walgreens with a huge parking lot, or a suburban Arby’s… etc.

42

I agree with you 100%…however in most cases the buildings that I am referring to will never be restored because their condition has fallen so far from the standard that the current owners refuse to do anything with them. The cost is too high to restore and too high to demo.

There should be an initiative in place for willing developers to be given the buildings for fair market value and some govt. monies to help restore and rebuild some of the architecture. As the way Buffalo works now…people are allowed to own buildings in any state and not have to keep them to any standard.

That is why i suggested the demo and shovel ready isnt bad if buffalo would get some balls and develop an architecture style that must be met and designed for new buildings. Noone wants another cookie cutter walgreens on the corner…but if they could develop an architecture standard for the building to look more era specific and at home in the urban setting…I dont think that is a bad way to go either.

43

There are not many buildings downtown that are beyond renovation. Buffalo is something like 60% surface parking lots, the last thing we need is more.

Also, surface parking lots need to start being Taxed the same as lots with buildings on them, this will encourage less surface parking, and result in more sales of these lots to people who will build on them.

44

Ah… public housing on the waterfront… There’s the Buffalo I know and hate. I’d love to find the person who made that decision and drop him off the skyway.

I think it’s a tossup between that and the 190 for the worst Buffalo idea EVER.

EDIT:

BTW… Bass Pro isn’t dead yet.

Commission: Bass Pro Deal in 30 Days or We Are Moving On

  			The Erie Canal Harbor Development Corporation told reporters Monday that a comprehensive plan for development along Buffalo's inner and outer harbor is in place, and if Bass Pro wants to be a part of it, they have 30 days to agree to a deal.

The commission presented the plan, which includes thousands of square feet in retail, business, and residential availability near the current site of Memorial Auditorium. It includes a museum on the inner harbor, and a maketplace similar to the one in Seattle, Washington.

All told, Commission vice-president Larry Quinn says this development plan is twice the size of the one in Baltimore, Maryland.

“This is a ‘go’ project,” said Quinn.

The commission is going ahead with studies to figure out whether to gut the Aud or tear it down completely.

Meantime, Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown said his office will negotiate directly with Bass Pro to try to come to an agreement to put a store in the Aud, or on that site. If, after 30 days, there is no deal, the commission will begin to look for other suitors for the site.

“Erie County has no more money for this project. It’s time to fish or cut bait,” said Erie County Executive Joel Giambra.

All parties agree that waterfront development will move forward, with or without Bass Pro.

“I’d like to see them be a part of this deal. But if they’re not, we move forward,” said Chairman Anthony Gioia.

45

:mamoru: Yes. The fact that he makes the long and arduous 10 minute trek proves Bass Pro’s ability to draw people in. :bloated: So a Bass Pro downtown will bring in money from far away cities like Hamburg, West Seneca, and Lackawanna! IIRC part of macro-economic theory is that every time money circulates within a control system such as a city region, it loses value. So a Bass Pro encouraging locals to spend their money locally while realistically not drawing in people from Ohio, Canada, and PA will actually sink Buffalo further.

But who knows. Maybe people will come from hundreds of miles away to buy the same hunting, fishing, and camping equipment that they can buy locally. Maybe they will stay for the weekend and spend their money in town. I can’t count the number of times I’ve wanted to make a weekend vacation out of picking up a fishing reel. Or maybe I just don’t understand what Bass Pro is? :gotme:

Bingo. Buffalo was once a great city with a plan. When heavy industry started shipping out we stopped planning. We stopped adapting. The future of Buffalo is in high-tech knowledge work, which as a bonus frees up the waterfront for tourism development.

46

Why wouldn’t people travel here to buy fishing stuff?
Look at our sales tax, gas prices, and weather - OK bad examples.

47

Stop thinking logically.

Bass pro is nothing more then a gigantic marketing machine. Its a glorified sporting goods outdoorsmen store.

It sounds sweet on paper…but it probably would have closed in about 2 years anyway after the appeal has worn off. The city needs long term plans with benefits…not get rich quick schemes.

48

I’m not too familiar with Buffalo history, however does anyone have a like with more information about the “Aud”, as far as it’s current state/history. I’m quite curious about it and wanted to know a bit more about it.

49

During the mid-1930’s, the federal government pumped public works dollars into the national economy in an effort to put a halt to the Great Depression. Employment and construction programs spurred municipal projects across the country.

In Buffalo, one such project was the replacement of the aging Broadway Auditorium, Buffalo’s only convention hall. The cornerstone was laid on November 30, 1939. Located between Lower Terrace and Lake Streets, the $2,700,000 Arena stands at one end of what was once the Erie Canal in the oldest section of Buffalo. Opening ceremonies for the 422’ by 262’ auditorium with its 12,280 tiered red, blue and gray-colored seats and 2,000-3,000 floor-level moveable seats was held on October 14, 1940. A parade and 3,000-person luncheon was held at the Auditorium. The affair was described as one of the largest civic celebrations ever held in Buffalo. The Aud was formally dedicated in memory of those who had died in World War combat.

The huge building became the center of entertainment for Buffalo. In its first seven months, events drew over one million spectators. Locals flocked to the Aud to see concerts, political rallies, dog shows, circuses, ice shows and sporting events.

The Aud became the new home of the Buffalo Bisons Professional Hockey Club. By 1955, the Aud was in need of vast improvement and a $595,000 plan was undertaken. The Bisons were sold to the Pastor family in 1956. The Pastors introduced a local youth ice hockey program that utilized the Aud for it’s games. The programs ensured that the love for the sport remained large in the hearts of many young Buffalonians. The Bisons folded in 1970 when the NHL expansion Buffalo Sabres were born. An $8.7 million renovation, raised the 2,200-ton roof 24 feet for expansion of seating capacity by 18,000 seats.

In 1996, the Aud was locked and boarded up when the state-of-the-art Crossroads Arena/Marine Midland Arena/HSBC Arena, opened its doors for the first time. A new era of history for the City had been ushered in.

50

Ok, lets stop right there, because your whole arguement is based on the idea that this is a bad thing.

No, it’s not. These area’s have people spending money in retail currently (well, maybe not Lackawanna). It would also draw from Amherst, and anyone that has tried to drive down NFB or Transit on the weekend knows these retail centers can afford to have some spending go downtown. As one of many WNY sportsmen I know a lot of us order online with Bass Pro, and if there was a local store I’d be much more likely to just go there.

The problem with WNY is people like you are in charge. If the project isn’t the silver bullet to downtown revitalization it’s deemed not worthy of doing, so nothing ever gets done. People like you sit there and have these grand schemes that would be better, but the problem is they are far too grand and will never happen.

“Lets put the stadium down there”. Give me a break. Ralph will be dead in a couple years and the Bills will be out the door. They couldn’t even sell out the Miami game this weekend yet people think investing a bazillion dollars on a waterfront dome stadium is a good idea. We won’t even discuss parking. And how would you get 80000 people out of there when the game is over? Oh, right, we’re in la la land. Just completely redesign the traffic and public transit system. Make that 4 bazillion dollars instead of a bazillion.

“We should put a huge university down there”. Uh… UB can barely handle it’s parking requirements with the cheap wide open space it has now. How much do you want to raise tuition to afford a massive parking structure so tall you’d probably need a sherpa to find your way to the top?

The reason I support Bass Pro, as well as the casino, is they are a starting point. Neither are a going to draw people from hundreds of miles away, but they will draw traffic and that’s a start.

Do you think people are coming to Clifton Hill by plane or long road trip? No, that is a bustling area because they put in a casino and locals went to it. Then other things popped up around it. I was here in 96 and Clifton Hill wasn’t much more than a couple bars and the Skylon. Canadian taxes make NY look economical but lots of us still go over there and spend money because there are things to do.

But whatever. Fuck bass pro. There is some new waterfront plan on paper, being designed by a bunch of politicians, so I’m sure that will happen and be much better. They’re probably going to start it right after they finish the peace bridge.

51

Here’s another one:
http://www.bisonshistory.com/memorial-auditorium.htm

52

So what is the current state of the place. See as it’s been abandoned for awhile I’d imagine it’s been quite vandalized. But what about circa 1996, how bad of shape was it in then compaired to now?

53

I can come up with a great plan too if I ignore reality.

  1. Knock down the water front projects, relocate the people to inland slums where slums belong, and build high price waterfront homes. I’d love to see that one happen with Bryon in office. Better chance of seeing a meteor wipe out the area.

  2. Knock down the skyway, bury the 190. I’m spending imaginary money so who cares about the cost.

  3. Put UB and ECC both downtown. Put in all sorts of public transit linking them and all my other stuff I’m building. Hell, lets make it free public transit. Put in a parking garage like in Tokyo Drift where the cars are on a carousel CD changer like device.

  4. Dome Stadium FTW. We’ll have Erie County buy up all the suites that don’t sell, and they can give them to the people who were kicked out of the waterfront slums to make them happy again.

  5. Add world class shopping, restaurants and apartments. No idea how you get them all done when there is no market for them, but hey, we’re talking la la land urban re-dev here.

54

You’re right. We should stick with the bait-shops-gonna-save-our-city plan. Much more grounded in reality.

Although you make a good point that it’s hard to build anything when we’ve got no money. Better raise taxes.

55

Does anyone know of any place where it would be possible to get floor-plans/blueprints/pics of the inside of the Aud I had a spiffy idea for something to work on in my free time. And need a better idea of the dimensions of the building.

56

I never said it was going to save our asses. I said it was a start, which is more than I can say I’ve seen done since I moved here in 96.

Bass Pro + Casino = people downtown. The sticking point on Bass Pro seems to be the cost to tear down or at least gut the Aud. If Bass Pro doesn’t want to budge on that, oh well, let them leave. There was already a huge incentive package to get them there, we certainly shouldn’t give them anymore. I definitely would like to see the store get built, but we’ve offered enough.

I think the ultimate revelation as to why nothing will never get done downtown was the casino. Here is a group that wants no incentives, and wants to buy a street to no where, and the mayor basically flips them the bird because he doesn’t think enough of the minorities that put him in office are going to get jobs there. To him that was enough reason to refuse to sell Fulton Street, almost costing the city the casino.

Now how do you think other businesses who might be considering doing business in Buffalo are going to look at that? I mean, lets face it, most other businesses are going to want some sort of concessions for building there instead of one of the booming suburbs. So how many other political stunts do they figure they’ll have to endure just to get the privilege of doing business downtown?

57

So what we were offering Bass Pro was about equal to or less than what it would cost to tear down the Aud?

58

We were giving them a lot. I’m sure you can look it up. The number $54 million is in my head though. That was coming from state and local.

http://www.buffaloniagara.org/Home/Latest_News/BuffaloWaterfrontBassPro

Springfield, Mo.-based Bass Pro is certainly not the project’s only component, but it is nonetheless an important one. The oft-called destination retailer has a reputation for turning around blighted areas by prompting other shops, restaurants and even hotels to follow on its coattails. People drive hundreds of miles to Bass Pro stores to shop, eat and view museum-quality animal reproductions and to see vintage hunting and fishing gear on display. The proof lies some 130 miles east, in the Finger Lakes region of Auburn, N.Y. A comparatively smaller Bass Pro store opened in June of last year to much fanfare and hype. The once-dying Fingerlakes Mall that the 85,000-square-foot store calls home and the surrounding area are both now booming.

Just five years ago the occupancy rate at Fingerlakes Mall hit an all-time low, dipping below 50 percent. Now it is 80 percent and rising. Thirty new retailers and eateries have joined the mix there, including national retailers PacSun and Aeropostale. And overall sales are up 20 percent, with some areas enjoying even higher jumps. Food court sales, for example, have spiked between 50 and 60 percent, while some national chains are up roughly 40 percent. Mall officials estimate that foot traffic has doubled to 2 million a year.

“Bass Pro was pretty much the single tenant we had targeted as being the one that could turn the property around,” said Greg Greenfield, president of Atlanta-based Greg Greenfield & Associates, which represents a group of investors that owns the mall. “We thought it was going to be somewhat of a long shot, but it turned out to be the grand-slam home run, highest-impact tenant in the whole universe.”

Bass Pro draws customers from 100 miles and beyond, he says - not bad for a mall that previously drew them from the immediate Auburn area, which is part of a county of just 81,900 residents.

59

This comes back to rental vouchers along with stricter building codes.

I’m not so sure that knocking down the 190 is realistic either, but I think there are ways to make it work with the area if we cannot find the money.

Im pretty sure that most everyone was just pointing out that putting UB in amherst was a mistake, not suggesting that we tear it down and rebuild it. Its a moot point, its not going to be moved, but I do think that it would be to the schools and the city’s benefit to have our light rail extended to the north campus, perhaps someday the funds will be made available to make this happen.

Arent all the Ralph Suites booked?

Last time I looked there are at least 3 major arteries that come into downtown, and almost limitless backroads. This would be a hell of a lot more efficient at getting people to and from the stadium than the 219 and union road. It is at least 20-40 minutes shorter drive for canadians and rochester fans, which should grow ticket sales to those regions. Between that and the smaller capacity, we should have no problem filling a stadium game after game. The dolphin game had less than 4000 tickets left. Lets reduce the capacity by 10-15k and make it more realistic for a small market team like buffalo.

The point of a new build would be a multi-use facility that brings in a hell of a lot more revenue than the Ralph, and spawns lots of offshoot development. The ralph will need to undergo major renovations soon as it is, why not put that money towards something more useful and realistic.

No market? Almost every single loft project downtown has been fully rented before completion. Class A office space vacancy rates are in the low single digits. As a city we have gone from the single digit millions in development to well into the billions of dollars in development currently underway in less than one year.

Lets not even get into the Casino deal… sure they didnt want any money from us, because thier deal already involves taking millions of dollars OUT of our economy once the Casino is running. Sure we get a percentage of SLOT MACHINE revenue, but don’t tell me that getting a couple pennies back for every dollar we give them is a good thing for the city.

Buffalo has a long way to go, but things are definitely headed in the right direction.

60

Can I just sell you to China already?