Esso, PetroCanada, Shell and Sunoco?

SON240sx Automotive
21

IIRC, ethanol is very stable and helps reduce pre-ignition… Look at the pump and check for a sticker that say’s “May contain up to 10% ethanol”.

I know Pioneer & Petro-Can use ethanol. I think Sunoco and Esso use 10% as well, so I really don’t know what to think. I’m a current petro-can user however I’ll probably get a pioneer points card and run that gas.

Edit: Let me qualify: I am not factually stating that ethanol mixed gasoline is more stable or reduces pre-ignotion. However, I’m simply stating the facts that ethanol is resistant to pre-ignition and in turn wondering if it helps as a mixture.

22

it does reduce pre-ignition but ethanol isn’t a good fuel. It half about half the energy as gasoline… F-1 Uses methanol because of that fact of pre-ignition and a few other factors but they have to use double the amount of methanol than if they were to use gasoline because of the amount of energy released during burning. AS for the gas it probably has something to do with that and by the way they process their fuel.

23

lol about gas and power. ahmed, how much of a difference can you really notice on an old stock KA? :frowning:

24

straight ethanol is about 110 octane or so I’ve heard, taking that into account it’s a good octane rating booster, other additives like toluene and xylene are more powerful but slightly toxic, petrocan adds mtbe as their major booster which is also toxic

shell has one of the most pure/quality refineries in ontario located around sarnia, but as they only supply about 1/3 the fuel for the province’s shell’s, that doesn’t really help for purchasing consistency

I hear petrocan sources most of their fuel from imperial (esso) anyway just refined a bit better and further coctails added

25

agreed. my car feels like pure shit no matter what gas i have in it

26

Well I do, in fact another new fact I have realized through testing lately, with petrocanada fuel now, despite lacking in power, I have managed 450km to the tank. I consider that quite a feat… but it definetely lacks the oomph of shell and sunoco… Sorry but this is how my car has been, I’ve been trying different fuels and octanes and this is what it is to my car at least. It may be say ± 5-10hp difference and ± 5mpg difference, but it’s definetely there.

There is a difference, enough that when I’m on the highway and when I step on it, with petro fuel, I am almost gauranteed to be hit from behind with lack of power, and with shell and sunnoco I can pull away and can feel the butt dyno registering torque. If someone not lazy and with money or owneringship to test different fuels on a dyno, I am most certain they would register differences, however minor, and showcase a dynograph for all the cynics.

Sorry for the cynics on here like mark and dts, and some others, there is a difference. How about eating shit for a day or pizza or cake or a nice chicken and rice recipe, surely all of them bring something to your body, but all with differing results.

27

that last paragraph … not needed. Anyway I was think of this thread when my fuel light came on… with the lowest octane petro canada fuel in it. so I went to sunoco and filled up 10 bucks of 94… which came up to only 7. somethin liters :(. Drove a bit, got on the highway let it all mix… There is definetly a difference on the highway especially in 4th gear, where you can notice it the most… on a stock KA Its not much but you can notice something has changed. What I also noticed is that during higher RPMS the Petro fuel is shit… all are good for low rpm… but I think sunoco burns better/faster and its evident during hight rpms, where is has more power. For example on the highway.

28

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you arent making 10hp difference switching gas companies.

And running higher octane is making you less power.

If you understand how octane effects how gas burns you will understand this.

It is A) in your head B) Weather conditions.

And there are people with 470whp ethenol K series Hondas now.

29

yea, stock KA is only good for 87 octane, anything else is just a waste of money. If you have installed high compression pistons, or your boosted, or you have an ECU tuned for it, then you need higher octane 91-94 or your engine will detonate,knock w.e which is really bad…

30

Well I’m sorry but when I drive my car from 3000rpm I feel the torque rising, at about 5000rpm it drops down. With petro fuel, there is like literally nothing between 3000-5000, the car feels like its making noise and not pushing. With sunnoco and shell 89 I feel a power increase. I always run 89 by the way and that is the recommended fuel by nissan, 87 was recommended for ka24e models.

I certainly feel a dif between the two as well, the engine sounds a tiny bit more subdued when running 89 to me. If you think it’s all in my head good for you.

I don’t see much dif btw 87 and 89 except my car seems to run smoother and i get better gas milage… like whenever i fill esso 91, even petro 91 (i have done it for the heck of it before) I get 400km+ easily. However i def notice power dif btw the dif fuels used especially when petro vs shell or sunnoco.

When I run petro my car runs like shit in terms of power from 3000-5000, it literally just makes alot of noise and doesn’t do shit.

I used to fill petro all the time as often they were cheaper, even though it was only a cent or two (back in the days when fuel was still in the 70s cent range). Each time I filled shell my car behaved very differently, it was less raspy in a sense and I felt more grunt out of it… and I assumed my car was just raspy and noise making as opposed to acceling when i had low fuel, so when i had a full tank, the car was pushing forward and had to rev harder. THESE were just things in my mind, however, as I experimented with the dif fuels, I realized each time I fill my car with shell, the car didn’t ‘rev as freely’, or so I first thought, but it pulled… while with petro it ‘revved’ but didn’t quite pull, it just made lots of noise.

As a result I ran all the way to empty and filled all the way to full with dif fuels to find out with butt dyno, and I do alot of highway driving so I know when I step on it how it feels differently.

Recently how I really put this to the test was on highway driving, I almost got HIT a few times because no matter how much the throttle was mashed in, my car was not pulling and I was wondering WHAT is going on, only to realize I was filling petro… as soon as i filled shell my car was pulling as it was before. It really bothers me, as sometimes I fill out of necessity with petro as there are no other stations and immediately feel a different behaviour from the car.

Now you can hold your opinion all you want, but I certainly feel a difference between petrocanada crap and shell and sunnoco.

31

You have other issues with your car besides what type of fuel you use it seems.

32

If I bump the timing i usually run 91 on my KA.

I’m thinking of running 89 in hot weather with stop and go traffic.

33

Your probably right…

34

lol i honestly doubt that you’d actually feel a difference of “10” hp from your “butt dyno” in 4th on the highway. We need to do a pepsi challenge test. So you have idea what gas is in there and we’ll see if you feel a difference.

35

all i gota say is a_ahmad… after reading many post from several threads… i conclude ur a retard that curses a lot.

36

Fobwall: necessitated constructive crticism of the highest degree as expected as usual, thanks for your kind opinion.

iLarree: Thanks you’re a genius too,

I just filled up 89 shell, i can notice a dif, even with a nearly empty tank the petro fuel made the car feel worse and had less power, than now with a full tank of 89 shell… the car feels it pulls its weight around alot more as usual with shell or sunnoco.

Whatever, this is my conclusion from repeated trial of trying between these.

Oh well, if people do not consider the quality or content of what goes in their car as important however minor perhaps, to each their own.

37

When I had my S14 with the ka24de, I thought the manual said to use 91 premium if available, but you can use 87 if needed. My assumption was that a knock sensor would retard the timing when the engine would knock with the lower octane. Tada, now your mileage sucks and you spent more on gas by trying to save by using cheap gas.

DTS is correct, higher octane wont get you more power unless you have your timing advanced or the compression is high enough.

However, the gasoline blends between those four gasolines are very different in the sulphur content. Some of you may remember that a few years back, GM gas tank floats were sticking. That was due to the sulphur increase in the shell refinery. Oops.

Sunoco is the cleanest gas to burn, but on the whole, the ethanol does reduce the amount of mileage you will get. I use sunoco religiously, but If I need to, I’ll use Esso.

My 2 cents.

38

The only way to conclude this is a dyno test… the whole thing must be done very quickly so the environment doesn’t change and at least 3 times each. Im not really considered about the hp but where the power is at in the rpms. You would have to Do a Petro test then esso then Sunoco… and repeat it in that order 3 times… not 3 pulls on one tank of fuel and 3 on another. it must be changed every pull to see if its the fuel and not just the surroundings at the time, like the stickers that gave 20hp. The environment will change the results a bit. Someone should get a readout from the ECU and see what its doing with each fuel then it might help to shine some light on the situation. most likely no one would do this test, so its not going to matter. This will never be solved :frowning: I see that alot of people that think they know everything give bits of info that is right along with alot that their guessing which is just making this worse. If you don’t know exactly what you talking about please don’t say it.

39

I don’t know, it sounds made up. I do not notice any difference between gasses at different stations other than the fact that it seems that my car gets less mileage from shell. That is probably due to my driving habits differing for that tank or changes in the environment. My car pulls the same regardless. Maybe it is because I am not subconciously looking for differences. If I were you ahmed, I would spend more time fixing what is wrong with your engine than riding your butt dyno.

40

you might want to get your facts straight before you pull these numbers out of your ass! i know for a fact that petro-canada does not use any ethanol in their gas. you might have gotten confused as tehy were thinking of putting up to 10% in it but with their research they found out that ethanol isnt what its made out to be. and if there is water in the gas then its because of that particular gas station having water issues in their in ground tanks. Trust me i work at petro-canda and daily we have to measure our fuel and make sure there is no water in it. So in the future STFU unless you know what you rtalking about