GM bankrupt!!???

[j_espo1]

let GM and Chrysler sink.

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

So the next step for Government Motors?
This morning on the radio they were talking about how Obama STILL wants America to make the most green cars in the world. Imagine that, everything is just falling into place for this guy.

[Moruitelda]

@Blue Eyed Devil

So the next step for Government Motors?
This morning on the radio they were talking about how Obama STILL wants America to make the most green cars in the world. Imagine that, everything is just falling into place for this guy.

I understand that you’re complaining, but not about what.

Also, Government Motors? Is that what FoxNews is using as a tagline for this?

@Obama

Let me be clear: the United States government has no interest or intention of running GM. What we are interested in is giving GM an opportunity to finally make those much-needed changes that will let them emerge from this crisis a stronger and more competitive company.

@Obama

These companies – and this industry – must ultimately stand on their own, not as wards of the state

Government Motors indeed.

[blk99z28]

@BigEd88

It may have been in the speech, if not it was on the news after it. If GM went out, the parts suppliers go out too. What does that mean? Ford goes out because it has no parts, Chrysler too, all the jap brands would start to fall apart too, because believe it or not, more parts are shared between the companies than you guys who hate domestics care to believe.

It would be an industry wide collapse.

True

@BigEd88

See we’re not that far yet however. What I don’t understand is why GM didn’t make a system where you pay into your pension and that goes into an account you can’t touch until you retire, so you basically are forced to save some of your money for you retirement and then GM wouldn’t get more and more bloated budget every year.

They sort of do, atleast for the salaried employees. Part of the problem is they need to earn interest on their portfolio to help pay peoples pensions. Problem is just like everyone’s retirement plan over the last 16 month their “401” is probably down 20-30% just like mine, yours and 99% of everyone’s right now. Wi th out being able to use the interest earned off those pension funds then they have to rely on savings, which depletes their cash position even further.

@BigEd88

Union dues should pay for that stuff? Why not? you truly are helping your brother out then right?

Its a real shame the UAW has said the don’t want to make anymore concessions, hey its nice to have every job in the factory be able to support a family and put kids through college, but at some point something has to give.

I guess bloated salaries at the top of EVERY company in the world doesn’t help us much either.

The more you know the more you get paid, the harder you work the less you get paid.

The unions have to give more. They have been take take taking for years. I think it starts at the top. Obama shoud have asked Gettlefinger to step down as well. He is just as if not more, responsible than Wagner, and he(G-finger) seems unwilling to concede at all.

[blk99z28]

I would love to hear one of detractors that wants GM to drown and says all they make are shitty cars to post here actual reasons their are hemorrhaging cash the way they are. And give some foresight was to why and what affect that will have on the economy either way. Try to use an understanding of economics on a level that is at least equivalent or greater than that of a 5th grader. Because those are the only arguments I am hearing here. Funny how people that actually have somewhat of an understanding on how economics works and realizes the place these companies hold in our economic system are pulling to see them survive, yet the only argument against is; “they make shitty cars, they suck, my K20 or sr20 rulez yo, so die LS1 making GM!”

Its laughable and you make yourselves look like morons. I would love to read some more intelligent arguments

[Joe]

The sad part is 97 b18 tries to portray himself as knowing anything about economics, yet he holds a textbook laissez faire pure capitalist view that works about as well as pure communism in a real-life application. I’ve seen convincing arguments in this thread from Moruitelda and blk99z28. Out of hundreds of posts. That’s about it.

Absolute pure capitalism and absolute pure communism are equal and opposite. Every economy in the world is at varying stages of the middle, because neither end actually can work. Anything implying that either would be good is complete rhetoric.

[Moruitelda]

@Joe

The sad part is 97 b18 tries to portray himself as knowing anything about economics, yet he holds a textbook laissez faire pure capitalist view that works about as well as pure communism in a real-life application. I’ve seen convincing arguments in this thread from Moruitelda and blk99z28. Out of hundreds of posts. That’s about it.

Absolute pure capitalism and absolute pure communism are equal and opposite. Every economy in the world is at varying stages of the middle, because neither end actually can work. Anything implying that either would be good is complete rhetoric.

I’m not even arguing anything, I’m just saying “let’s be practical before ideological.” :lol:

Thanks, though!

[camarojoe]

Details of new program GM will launch tomorrow:

GM has just announced that it will launch its “Total Confidence Program” effective tomorrow, April 1, 2009. This is a customer protection program designed to: (1) provide payment protection in case you lose your employment, (2) protect your new car’s retail value at trade-in and (3) provide a 5 year / 100k mile limited powertrain warranty.

[mike125k]

@Moruitelda

I understand that you’re complaining, but not about what.

Also, Government Motors? Is that what FoxNews is using as a tagline for this?

Quote:
 	 		 			 				 					Originally Posted by <b>Obama</b> 					 				
			<i>Let me be clear: the United States government has no interest or intention of running GM. What we are interested in is giving GM an opportunity to finally make those much-needed changes that will let them emerge from this crisis a stronger and more competitive company.</i>
		 		 	 	 
Quote:
 	 		 			 				 					Originally Posted by <b>Obama</b> 					 				
			<i>These companies -- and this industry -- must ultimately stand on their own, not as wards of the state</i>

Government Motors indeed.

How can he say that when he wants his “Car Czar” to oversee them and he basically forced Wagner to resign.

[Moruitelda]

@mike125k

How can he say that when he wants his “Car Czar” to oversee them and he basically forced Wagner to resign.

He didn’t force him to, he asked him to. There was no obligation, but fixing the current situation without risking GM falling apart in bankruptcy may require some government intervention. He’s talking about the long term, not about leaving GM alone during this turn-around period.

[StrokedZ28]

@Joe

The sad part is 97 b18 tries to portray himself as knowing anything about economics, yet he holds a textbook laissez faire pure capitalist view that works about as well as pure communism in a real-life application. I’ve seen convincing arguments in this thread from Moruitelda and blk99z28. Out of hundreds of posts. That’s about it.

Absolute pure capitalism and absolute pure communism are equal and opposite. Every economy in the world is at varying stages of the middle, because neither end actually can work. Anything implying that either would be good is complete rhetoric.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.

[Joe]

The sad part is people don’t realize that our closest foray with pure capitalism was little over 100 years ago. Guess what we got? Standard Oil, Carnegie Steel, JP Morgan Banking, Vanderbilt Railroads, etc., and 99.9% poor workers with no rights, low wages, and no job security. The tycoons did get REALLY REALLY rich though. Too bad we broke up the trusts.

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

@camarojoe

Details of new program GM will launch tomorrow:

GM has just announced that it will launch its “Total Confidence Program” effective tomorrow, April 1, 2009. This is a customer protection program designed to: (1) provide payment protection in case you lose your employment, (2) protect your new car’s retail value at trade-in and (3) provide a 5 year / 100k mile limited powertrain warranty.

I am sorry but I had to giggle a little. April fool’s day? lol

[97_B18b1]

@Moruitelda

I’m not even arguing anything, I’m just saying “let’s be practical before ideological.” :lol:

Thanks, though!

o NO please let the government stop me from making stupid decisions. please save me from myself by monitoring everything i do. Ya in a free maarket if u make stupid mistakes u pay for them, tough luck, get over it and learn from it. Its better than printing money faster than the presses can keep up to make sure veryone has their money. Dont worry if the value drops every time we pay u the money u lost, just accept t and forget about the plumitting value. But thats what i get for argueing with nyspeed

[Moruitelda]

@97_B18b1

o NO please let the government stop me from making stupid decisions. please save me from myself by monitoring everything i do. Ya in a free maarket if u make stupid mistakes u pay for them, tough luck, get over it and learn from it. Its better than printing money faster than the presses can keep up to make sure veryone has their money. Dont worry if the value drops every time we pay u the money u lost, just accept t and forget about the plumitting value. But thats what i get for argueing with nyspeed

The problem is that the stupid mistakes that you’re inevitably going to make (based upon my estimation of your intelligence given your ability to communicate) affect me.

And yes, I’m perfectly fine with the government restricting your liberty to screw up if it’s done to protect the economic stability of my life.

You’re not arguing, bud, you’re just spouting off ideology. “The free market is better because it lets you make mistakes.” Why is that better?

The only reasonable judge of the quality of something is through the utility it provides. The free market provides some utility, but if you can dilute it or mix it with something else to improve the quality of life for the people living in the economy, then it’s not the best system. Again, I’m arguing on theory, not practice, here, because I’m pissed off at mouth-breathers like you thinking that FREE MARKET is the best possible system because… IT’S A FREE MARKET.

This logic (more accurately, lack thereof) makes me want to :banghead: until I’m :bloated:

[mike125k]

@Moruitelda

He didn’t force him to, he asked him to. There was no obligation, but fixing the current situation without risking GM falling apart in bankruptcy may require some government intervention. He’s talking about the long term, not about leaving GM alone during this turn-around period.

You can’t honestly be that naive to believe nothing else went on/was said behind closed doors… Wagner just instantly said, “Well since Obama thinks I should quit, I will and won’t ask any questions and just blindly abide.”

[Moruitelda]

@mike125k

You can’t honestly be that naive to believe nothing else went on/was said behind closed doors… Wagner just instantly said, “Well since Obama thinks I should quit, I will and won’t ask any questions and just blindly abide.”

I try to speculate as little as possible about things that I don’t have any information on, and limit it to what I do have some evidence to base suspicions upon. When the President asks someone to resign, typically it’s done, so there’s no need for closed-door meetings.

Not to say I’d be surprised if there were, but I don’t think it’s a necessary precondition for us to get to where we are today.

[yamba6]

hey maybe now we will have some quality built American made cars.

[Moruitelda]

@yeamabu

hey maybe now we will have some quality built American made cars.

The modern GM product line is one of the best American lineups since the 60s, in my opinion. Cobalt (SS), Camaro (SS), Corvette (ZO6, ZR1), Solstice (GXP), G6 (GT), G8 (GT, GXP), G5… they’re all good to very good cars at reasonable prices. I’d own any one of them (except the G5, G6, and the base models of the Cobalt and G8, but only because they’re not exciting enough, not due to quality concerns).

[brent_strong]

@yeamabu

hey maybe now we will have some quality built American made cars.

:banghead: