Can anyone that doesn’t have a personal bias (or if you do, do it without one) let me know why letting these fat fucks fall in to the ocean and die isn’t bad?
fwiw. kill the unions, AND restructure like grown ups and I’ll think about caring.
So ripping the pensions and health care benes from about 4 million people is OK with you? Who do you think is going to pay for their pensions and health care if they go bankrupt and these companies die? Where are the current employes going to work since so many other industries are hiring right now. That should help the economy, another million people out of work. And when they do go unemployed who is going to pay their unemployement benefits?
not me :gotme:
I don’t think they thought that far in advance.
GM Giving these pensions in the first place is what fucked everything up, not lack of sales/gas prices rising
it finally caught up to them
they overproduce way to much, for every 100 cars they over produce(if not less), thats an extra hundred thou-million dollars between paid hours, parts, the actual cost of the car
and then they sit there on the lot for another year and depreciate 8k
the market for econo shitboxes is what is up right now, not all leather LSSiqness. For every person who likes a nice, fast, “luxiorious” car, there are 6 people that only care about gas mileage and getting from point A to B
atleast now, with the government backing the warranties, people will not shy away from buying a GM/Chrysler product because they know their warranty on their new car will be backed
i wouldnt spend 20k+ on a car that was made by a company that may not exist before the warranty expires :gotme:
way to feed into what they want u to belive. freemarket is the most glorious system ever devised because it allows the people to be free to make their own judgements and their own mistakes. Instead of hoisting companies up with loans and havin the taxpayer pay the interest, a true competetive market would have endless possibilities and endless room for prosperity. Letting government control everything takes the competition out of what used to make this country great. The framers knew how horrible it is for the government to issue fiat money and control markets. But keep on believing that its ok for government ot stick their hand sin everything. Just keep demanind that they control more and more until everything u own is controlled by the government.
:fry:
lol
ok ya it sucks that these workers are getting fucked, but the cars suck im sorry. I will pay a little extra for a honda or toyota and not worry about the check engine light coming on for a couple hundred thousand miles, instead of buying a piece of shit that is engineered purposefully to break down at certain points so i pay out the ass to have it fixed. Not to metnion the resale value difference. Make good cars and ill consider buying one.
This thread is so full of fail, it’s no wonder our country is in shambles.
i think you should actually use some sort of intellectual reasoning as to why you would state such a thing? but good argument :tup:
I have owned GM products for 20 years now and have had some cars last to 200,000 miles. Sure you may have some issues at 100,000 miles, it’s expected. Oxygen sensor, plugs sending an engine light, etc. I haven’t had the problems that the domestic haters keep harping on. And if I had an issue I brought it to the dealer and they took care of it. I think people just bashon domestic because they are domestic. But out of the 15 or so cars I have owned, I can’t name one that had fail all over it.
Foreign cars don’t rust out, have check engine lights come on, need constant brake repairs, etc, right?
Did you read the thread? There are like 25 good posts with the rest being uninformed ramblings about how gm sucks, every car they make is a pos, they should just go out of business, toyota/honda are the best, my 91 lumina was a pos, what about the unions blah blah blah. I’m not claiming to know it all but holy fuck some of the opinions expressed in this thread are so short sited it is laughable.If you don’t think the lack of educated opinions and actions people in this country make is relevant to the current situation our country is in then congrats you are an idiot. 
Oh really!!! I got news for you. If you live in teh US and pay taxes. Yep it will be you… and me and every other tax payer. Its a lot cheaper for the fed to give them a small loan now and let GM pay their own benefits then to let them go bankrupt and then the fed had to subsidize all their benefits to their laid off workers and retired employees with your tax dollars.
Good to see we have more JEGs picking up the slack in the i’m retarded and still talk about politics department
the only real problem with japanese cars when they first started becoming popular was that yes, the bodies wouldnt hold up as well. It is now the other way around completly. When u buy an american pickup truck today, the metal of the body panels is extremely thin. My uncle has a brand new f 350, he was leaning on the door, just leaning on it and he dented the fuckin door, actually dented it and some paint chipped off of it, he was so pissed. This is a joke. Reach under ur quarter panel of ur gmc or chevy truck, there is nothing ther, guys are coating the underside of these panels so that they dont rust out. American pickup trucks used to be able to tack quite a beating. that isnt the case nemore.
the framers knew? I don’t think the framers even fathomed something as large as GM or this world economy.
It may have been in the speech, if not it was on the news after it. If GM went out, the parts suppliers go out too. What does that mean? Ford goes out because it has no parts, Chrysler too, all the jap brands would start to fall apart too, because believe it or not, more parts are shared between the companies than you guys who hate domestics care to believe.
It would be an industry wide collapse.
See we’re not that far yet however. What I don’t understand is why GM didn’t make a system where you pay into your pension and that goes into an account you can’t touch until you retire, so you basically are forced to save some of your money for you retirement and then GM wouldn’t get more and more bloated budget every year.
Union dues should pay for that stuff? Why not? you truly are helping your brother out then right?
Its a real shame the UAW has said the don’t want to make anymore concessions, hey its nice to have every job in the factory be able to support a family and put kids through college, but at some point something has to give.
I guess bloated salaries at the top of EVERY company in the world doesn’t help us much either.
The more you know the more you get paid, the harder you work the less you get paid.
this thread shows how everyone is all “go capitalism” until something effects them and then they start chanting “go socialism.”
If you’re going to attempt to argue with me, please format your post so my brain doesn’t hurt from all the stupid by the second line.
It’s not what “they” “want me to believe.” That’s stupid. If the free market is the most glorious system devised, people should be permitted to smoke crack, shoot up heroin, take meth, etc., because they should be free to make their own judgments and mistakes. Hell, even if we don’t grant that to the economy (because peoples’ mistakes affect others, which you clearly haven’t taken away from this mess we’re in), we should still grant the philosophy to even the hardest of drugs, because people should be able to make their own mistakes. And let’s throw the prescription drug controls out the window. Oxycontin for everyone!
By your logic, we should stop protecting children. We should give them the ability to hold jobs, get credit, put themselves in debt, and enjoy the American dream! Forget about keeping them from the aforementioned currently illegal drugs (or the ones that are currently legal, but restricted), because they should be able to make their own mistakes!
The philosophy behind protecting children, the mentally challenged, the emotionally disturbed, etc., from people who would predate on them, is that people are incapable of consenting to something they don’t understand, and that their interests should be protected by those who do understand the risks.
Now let’s get back to what I said: that if some hybridized system can work better at protecting our prosperity and keeping our society stable and socially free, then it is a better system because of a quantifiable utilitarian advantage over the unregulated free market itself. Your argument about the virtues of the free market is meaningless. The ability for a person to control their own failure is not a virtue, because my neighbor’s failure affects me.
The failures of GM’s management and the UAW union leaders in negotiating a tenable agreement are affecting every automotive industry worker, and a lot of us with absolutely no relation to the automotive industry. Same with the failures of bankers and investors. A system which attempts to preserve our ability to succeed, while protecting us from failure, is superior to a system that leaves that up to outside forces, whether they be luck, chance, or skill, because failure is economically wasteful.
I’m not arguing that the government should be in control, because the government has its own issues of inefficiency. I’m simply arguing that the unregulated free market is not a virtue in and of itself. Virtue is based on the amount of good it can produce, not the thing itself. And there’s nothing about the unregulated free market that makes it necessarily better than systems which retain significant aspects of the free market, while introducing regulation aimed at keeping us out of ruts like these.
I don’t see anyone advocating socialism. :banghead: