We just bought a house and it is oil heat which the hot water heater is ran off as well. Its older but there is nothing really wrong with it other than it seems to kick on alot. Im questioning if it would make sense to replace it with an electric one or stick with the oil? Any thoughts?
switching to natural gas may be better. if you switch to a newer energy star model you might get a tax break and you can call some one like noco and they will buy back the old oil. but you’ll have to switch the furnace as well.
he may not have a gas line available in his area.
The houses out near wolcotsville and such, where my girlfriends grandparents own a house (they passed, and the house was up for grabs… now its being demolished cause its so fuckin out of code)… The whole town doesn’t have gas.
#2 fuel, and some kinda oil, I forget.
every house has two giant tanks.
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i thought about that as soon as i posted. propane maybe i dont know the dif in price off hand???
being a plumbing designer, you piss me off. it is not hot water heater. it is water heater. or call it a hot water tank but then its not the same.
as for your question, i would look into which service is cheaper in your area and then take a look at the efficiencies of the two your looking at. also replacement with a tankless heater isnt a bad idea either.
Odds are that it’s old as shit and replacing it with a new more efficient unit of any energy source will pay for itself in no time.
Before you buy a new appliance make sure that you don’t want to get natural gas run to the house. When I bought my house the furnace was oil and every other appliance was electric. National Fuel will run up to 100’ of fuel line for free, so if your house is less than 100’ from the road and there is gas service on your road you can have it brought to your house for free.
LOL, noticed that too. I was a plumber for a while and that caught my eye.
The most efficient option is the one that’s sized appropriately. No use heating 60 gallons if 40 will cover the demand. Consider how many baths/showers on average, laundry, etc.
I like electric only because there’s no exhaust to run and wiring is easy:buickgn:, so you can put the thing anywhere.
If you go to the energystar website, you need to buy a certain efficiency water heater, then you get a 30% tax break on purchase and installation of a new unit.
I might go tankless, but depending on price I would buy another tank one, if it were high efficiency.
Do the tankless heaters need a 220 line ran to them?
I have a propane tankless unit. It rocks. It’s worth looking into
sorry, water heater, didnt know.
We’re out in the country so there is no natural gas. My options are oil, electric and propane i guess. There is already 2 small propane tanks that run the stove only, but im not sure what to do with that either.
Do tankless really have the temperature issues I have read some complaining about?
thanks for the input though everyone
Keep your oil system and run it off of waste vegetable oil. Cheapest option other than solar, by far.
I was just going to ask opinions on oil furnaces, as a house i’m looking at has a newer oil furnace that was installed in 2005. In our area, is there really any benefit to having gas over oil?
ooh ooh , Is that possible? Link to more info? That would be badass:headbang:
Red99GTVert- Im far from an expert on anything home wise but I know with our oil ran boiler, the people we bought the house from had a budget plan of about $100 a month…i thought that was pretty good cause they were old and kept the house pretty warm too. It is a 2006 boiler and the eff. rating is really high, but if its newer and efficent, might not be that bad for you. BUT if you have the nat. gas option, that may be better, im sure someone else will chime in here that know 1000x more than i do on that.
OMG, I BET HE’S SO SORRY HE FUCKED THAT UP.
Did you know that before you became a plumbing designer? I bet not.
If you already have a boiler, could you just go with a (indirect)storage tank?
NO… The cost difference between a high efficiency and a tankless is not worth the money with out a 25 year payback period, longer than the lifespan of either appliance. The only time I will ever recommend the use of a tankless unit is at a fixture that is a long run from the storage tank, or a small p.o.u. tankless.
[CENTER]Water Heating System Options for .,..[/CENTER][CENTER]December 2, 2008[/CENTER]
Recently, BISD has expressed an interest in changing the design of the domestic hot water system to use “tankless” or “instant” water heaters for The Academy at Nola Dunn. A study was conducted by the XXX XXX group to quantify the advantages and disadvantages of this change. The advantages and disadvantages of the two systems are summarized below:
Storage Tank Water Heater Design
Estimated Water Heating Equipment Costs: $35,874
Estimated Cost of Additional Hot Water Supply/Return Loop Piping: $26,639
Estimated Yearly Gas Usage: 699,430,000 BTU
Estimated Yearly Electrical Energy Usage: 115,665 KW-HrTankless Water Heater Design
Estimated Water Heating Equipment Costs: $40,708
Estimated Cost of Additional Electrical Equipment and Wiring: $50,000
Estimated Yearly Gas Usage: 763,501,000 BTU
Estimated Yearly Electrical Energy Usage: 135,325 KW-HrBased on these facts and our experience with these system types, we recommend continuing with the original hot water system design. The initial equipment costs are less and it is our belief that the standby losses of conventional tank-type water heaters are mitigated by the efficiency and maintenance advantages. Ultimately, we will design a system based on the desires of the owner. However, we believe that should they choose a tankless water heater basis for design, both they and their staff will be disappointed in the performance and costs of the system.
[CENTER]Analysis of Proposed Change to Tankless water Heaters for the Academy at Nola Dunn (Elementary School #12)[/CENTER]
[CENTER] [/CENTER]
[CENTER]Assumptions[/CENTER]
[CENTER] [/CENTER]
·[FONT="] [/FONT]36 weeks of operation per school year
·[FONT="] [/FONT]5 days of operation per week
·[FONT="] [/FONT]8 hours of operation per day
·[FONT="] [/FONT]6 gallons of hot water used by each lavatory/hand sink per hour (Per ASPE Water Heater Sizing guidelines)
·[FONT="] [/FONT]10 gallons of hot water used by each flex space sink per hour (Per ASPE Water Heater Sizing guidelines)
·[FONT="] [/FONT]30 gallons of hot water used by each kitchen sink/faucet per hour (Per ASPE Water Heater Sizing guidelines)
·[FONT="] [/FONT]128 gallons of hot water used by each kitchen dishwasher per hour (Per ASPE Water Heater Sizing guidelines)
·[FONT="] [/FONT]20 gallons of hot water used by each Mop Sink per hour, assumed use 1 hour per day (Per ASPE Water Heater Sizing guidelines)
·[FONT="] [/FONT]5 GPM fill rate for laundry washing machines
·[FONT="] [/FONT]28 gallons of hot water used by each laundry washing machine per hour, assumed use 1 hour per day (Per ASPE Water Heater Sizing guidelines)
·[FONT="] [/FONT]2.5 GPM fill rate for residential style dishwasher
·[FONT="] [/FONT]15 gallons of hot water used by each residential style dishwasher per hour, assumed use 1 hour per day (Per ASPE Water Heater Sizing guidelines)
·[FONT="] [/FONT]All Fixtures comply with maximum flow rates from table 604.4 of International Plumbing Code
·[FONT="] [/FONT]Wash Fountains are equivalent in Hot Water use and flow requirements to 3 individual lavatories
·[FONT="] [/FONT]The power or gas consumption per year for each conventional or tankless water heater is derived by dividing the total water heating load for that unit (in Gallons Per Hour) by the output rating of the unit (also in Gallons Per Hour) and multiplying by 8 hours operation per day X 5 days per week x 36 weeks per year
·[FONT="] [/FONT]Energy consumption per year also includes make-up for stand-by losses and accounts for the efficiency of the unit in making up for the stand-by losses.
·[FONT="] [/FONT]Booster heating at the kitchen dishwasher was not accounted for as this would be required under both design approaches.
·[FONT="] [/FONT]The recirculation pump for the kitchen area was not accounted for as this would be required under both design approaches.
·[FONT="] [/FONT]Only one fixture was used per water heater for the tankless electric units due to fluctuations in temperature control with varying flow.
[CENTER]Kitchen Area[/CENTER]
Hot Water Demand
2 - Three Compartment Sink – 2 faucets each at 2.2 GPM per Faucet = 8.8 GPM
3 – Filler Faucet – 2.2 GPM each = 6.6 GPM
1 – Work Sink – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
1 – Pre-Rinse Sink – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
1 – Mop Sink – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
1 – Clothes Washer – 5 GPM each = 5 GPM
1 – Dishwasher – 2.13 GPM each = 2.13 GPM
5 – Hand Sinks/Lavatories – 0.5 GPM each = 2.5 GPM
TOTAL = 31.63 GPM
Original Design
2 - PVI Platinum Series “299 P A-PN” Boilers (299,000 BTU/HR, 70 Gallons Storage, 94% Eff.)
Equipment Purchase Price - $9800 ea. = $19,600
Total Gas Used per 36 Week School Year = 699,430 Cubic Feet
Tankless Design
5 - Noritz “N-1321M-ASME” Heaters (380,000 BTU/HR, 82.5% Eff.)
Equipment Purchase Price - $4599 ea. = $22,995
Total Gas Used per 36 Week School Year = 740,655 Cubic Feet[CENTER]South Wing, First Floor[/CENTER]
Hot Water Demand
3 – Flex Area Sinks – 1.0 GPM each = 3.0 GPM
2 – Wash Fountains – 1.5 GPM each = 3.0 GPM
1 – Mop Sink – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
2 – Hand Sinks/Lavatories – 0.5 GPM each = 1.0 GPM
1 – Shower Head – 2.5 GPM each = 2.5 GPM
1 – Clothes Washer – 5 GPM each = 5 GPM
1 – Dishwasher – 2.0 GPM each = 2.0 GPM
2 – Break room/Kitchen Sinks – 1.0 GPM each = 2.0 GPM
TOTAL = 20.7 GPM
Original Design
1 – Lochinvar HSX18-082 (18 KW, 80 Gallons Storage)
1 – Grundfos Recirculation Pump (258 Watts)
Equipment Purchase Price - $2,966 + $397 = $3,363
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 30,826 KW-Hr
Tankless Design
3 - Chronomite “M-30L/277” Heaters (8.31 KW each, 1 per Flex Area) - $195 each
2 - Chronomite “E-90_L/277” Heaters (9.00 KW each, 1 per Wash Fountain) - $495 each
1 - Chronomite “M-20L/277” Heaters (5.40 KW each, 1 at Room E111 Lavatory) - $195 each
1 - Chronomite “M-40/277” Heaters (11.08 KW each, 1 per Mop Sink) - $195 each
2 - Noritz “N-0931M-DV-ASME” Heaters (250,000 BTU/HR, 84.5% Eff.)
Equipment Purchase Price = $6,823
Total Gas Used per 36 Week School Year = 22,846 Cubic Feet
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 22,230 KW-Hr[CENTER]South Wing, Second Floor[/CENTER]
Hot Water Demand
6 – Flex Area Sinks – 1.0 GPM each = 6.0 GPM
2 – Wash Fountains – 1.5 GPM each = 3.0 GPM
1 – Mop Sink – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
1 – Hand Sinks/Lavatories – 0.5 GPM each = 0.5 GPM
TOTAL = 31.63 GPM
Original Design
1 – Lochinvar HSX15-082 (15 KW, 80 Gallons Storage)
1 – Grundfos Recirculation Pump (258 Watts)
Equipment Purchase Price - $2,930 + $397 = $3,327
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 21,210 KW-Hr
Tankless Design
6 - Chronomite “M-30L/277” Heaters (8.31 KW each, 1 per Flex Area) - $195 each
2 - Chronomite “E-90_L/277” Heaters (9.00 KW each, 1 per Wash Fountain) - $495 each
1 - Chronomite “M-20L/277” Heaters (5.40 KW each, 1 at Room E111 Lavatory) - $195 each
1 - Chronomite “M-40/277” Heaters (11.08 KW each, 1 per Mop Sink) - $195 each
Equipment Purchase Price = $2,550
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 28,307 KW-Hr[CENTER]East Wing, First Floor[/CENTER]
Hot Water Demand
7 – Flex/Classroom Area Sinks – 1.0 GPM each = 7.0 GPM
2 – Wash Fountains – 1.5 GPM each = 3.0 GPM
1 – Mop Sink – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
3 – Hand Sinks/Lavatories – 0.5 GPM each = 1.5 GPM
1 – Emergency Eye Wash – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
TOTAL = 15.90 GPM
Original Design
1 – Lochinvar HSX15-082 (15 KW, 80 Gallons Storage)
1 – Grundfos Recirculation Pump (258 Watts)
Equipment Purchase Price - $2,930 +$397 = $3,327
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 24,276 KW-Hr
Tankless Design
7 - Chronomite “M-30L/277” Heaters (8.31 KW each, 1 per Flex Area) - $195 each
2 - Chronomite “E-90_L/277” Heaters (9.00 KW each, 1 per Wash Fountain) - $495 each
3 - Chronomite “M-20L/277” Heaters (5.40 KW each, 1 at Room E111 Lavatory) - $195 each
1 - Chronomite “M-40/277” Heaters (11.08 KW each, 1 per Mop Sink) - $195 each
1 - Chronomite “E-90EW/277” Heaters (11.08 KW each, 1 per Eye Wash) - $495 each
Equipment Purchase Price = $3,630
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 35,254 KW-Hr[CENTER]East Wing, Second Floor[/CENTER]
Hot Water Demand
6 – Flex Area Sinks – 1.0 GPM each = 6.0 GPM
2 – Wash Fountains – 1.5 GPM each = 3.0 GPM
1 – Mop Sink – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
1 – Hand Sinks/Lavatories – 0.5 GPM each = 0.5 GPM
TOTAL = 31.63 GPM
Original Design
1 – Lochinvar HSX15-082 (15 KW, 80 Gallons Storage)
1 – Grundfos Recirculation Pump (258 Watts)
Equipment Purchase Price - $2,930 +$397 = $3,327
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 21,210 KW-Hr
Tankless Design
6 - Chronomite “M-30L/277” Heaters (8.31 KW each, 1 per Flex Area) - $195 each
2 - Chronomite “E-90_L/277” Heaters (9.00 KW each, 1 per Wash Fountain) - $495 each
1 - Chronomite “M-20L/277” Heaters (5.40 KW each, 1 at Room E111 Lavatory) - $195 each
1 - Chronomite “M-40/277” Heaters (11.08 KW each, 1 per Mop Sink) - $195 each
Equipment Purchase Price = $2,550
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 28,307 KW-Hr
[CENTER]Admin/Music/Gym Area[/CENTER]
Hot Water Demand
1 – Clinic Sink – 1.0 GPM each = 1.0 GPM
2 – Wash Fountains – 1.5 GPM each = 3.0 GPM
1 – Mop Sink – 2.2 GPM each = 2.2 GPM
4 – Hand Sinks/Lavatories – 0.5 GPM each = 2.0 GPM
TOTAL = 8.2 GPM
Original Design
1 – Lochinvar HSX15-082 (15 KW, 80 Gallons Storage)
1 – Grundfos Recirculation Pump (258 Watts)
Equipment Purchase Price - $2,930 +$397 = $3,327
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 18,145 KW-Hr
Tankless Design
1 - Chronomite “M-30L/277” Heaters (8.31 KW each, 1 per Clinic) - $195 each
2 - Chronomite “E-90_L/277” Heaters (9.00 KW each, 1 per Wash Fountain) - $495 each
4 - Chronomite “M-20L/277” Heaters (5.40 KW each, 1 at Room E111 Lavatory) - $195 each
1 - Chronomite “M-40/277” Heaters (11.08 KW each, 1 per Mop Sink) - $195 each
Equipment Purchase Price = $2,160
Total Electricity Used per 36 Week School Year = 21,227 KW-Hr
Basically this is an extreme example, but you can break down the math and see that a high efficiency unit is much more dollar smart and friendly than a p.o.u.
The reasons I went tankless are:
- It was a new build so there was no retrofit headache
- There’s only the 2 of us and we use very little hot water. It doesn’t make sense to keep 50 gallons of water hot all the time.
- I have a steam shower with a whirlpool tub. The tub is ~90 gallons. The only way I can fill it with hot water is with a tankless unit.
The only things running off my propane tank are the water heater, kitchen stove, and clothes dryer. I just had my propane tank topped off. Since December of last year, I’ve used $163 worth of gas. That’s about $20/month. I’m happy with the way things are working.
and I pay the minimum a month for gas here with a medium efficiency 40 gallon, $17.51 a month. This is with a 83% efficiency and a thermal blanket. I also use A LOT of water a month.
Laundry like 4-5 times a week, shower 3-4 times a day, etc…
Oh and I can hook up a hose to my kitchen sink for a hot water to wash cars.
EDIT: My water bill is 3 times my gas bill a month 