Well, it seems as if Dom (8grand) and I are going to have to sue our ex-landlord. We moved out of our apartment in January, after going month to month on the lease that ended on 12/31/07. We originally gave about 20 days notice to him that we were moving out due to buying a house. Our house closing was delayed a few times and the landlord agreed that we could just pay the rent for January and not renew the lease. So, we moved out and closed on our house during the first 2 weeks of January. I then had the carpets scrubbed and treated for pet odors. We had our two cats in the apartment (which was allowed according to the lease and the monthly pet fee we paid). I called the landlord and informed him that we were out of the apartment and I had cleaned and had the carpets cleaned (professionally-I have the receipt). I believe that was the week of 1/14/08. Our forwarding address was in the certified letter we sent giving notice of our intent to leave. A few weeks after we moved out, I got a call from him. He explained that he showed the apartment to 3 people and none of them would rent it because of a cat odor. I explained that I had the carpet treated for pet odors and I smelled no odor when I was at the apartment several days after the carpets were cleaned. He stated he would likely replace all of the carpet in the apartment and wanted me to pay for it. I told him I would not pay for it because it was not necessary. That was the last I heard of him until this Tuesday, 3/25/08 when I received an invoice in the mail from his company, Residential Properties Inc. The invoice lists that we owe $2254 minus our $575 security deposit which he kept, so $1679 for 94 yards of carpet replaced due to cat odor and stain. He states the carpet was new when we moved in during December 2007. He also lists $175 for touch up of paint and $100 for general cleaning. I have several issues here. From what I understand he had 30 days after we moved out to either provide this invoice or return our security deposit. It’s been about 2.5 months and this is the first we have heard about our deposit aside from the phone conversation. Also, there was an odor and some stains in the carpet from us, which is why I had the carpets cleaned professionally. There was no odor after there were cleaned and most of the stains we removed. I have the receipt for this. From what I understand, he is not allowed to charge us for touch up paint and general cleaning. There was very little, if any, damage to the paint and I thoroughly cleaned the apartment after moving our stuff out. So, from what I read, we can sue him for twice the amount of our security deposit if he did not provide an invoice stating any amounts due for damages or return our deposit within 30 days of us moving out. This is where I am a bit confused because I have read different things on different websites. One site claims that if we sue him for just the amount of security deposit, that he can not counter sue for damages; but if we sue for double for security deposit-he can counter sue.
I apologize for the long, unorganized rant. If anyone has advice, we could sure use it.
Edit-I forgot to mention that according to our lease we were supposed to pay an extra month of rent and also pay the rent until someone else moved in due to us not giving 60 days notice of ending our lease. When he allowed us to stay through January (which I paid an entire month of rent for and we moved in the middle of the month) he said that we would not have to pay any penalties since he now had more notice. Unfortunately I did not get much, if any, of this stuff in writing.
What you are dealing with unfortunately is a slumlord not a landlord. I would love to read over the lease if you wouldn’t mind. From that I might be able to give you some advice. General G on here is a landlord aswell he might have some advice for you.
Odor is hard to prove, but hard to disprove as well.
10-4 on the walkthough. That’s why they do a walk-around when you return a rental car, renter and rental company rep simultaneously check the rental unit…and sign off that everything is ok. Without that, it’s hard to say anything about the condition when you left.
How much was the “pet fee” that he waived for you?
i’ve been in peoples house that just reaks of cat piss, and the people that live there do not even notice it. so just maybe it actualy did have a slight smell to it and you are just so used to it from being around it all the time you didn’t notice it.
According to the landlord tenant act, (paraphrasing) the landlord must submit to the tenant in writing list of damages/charges and return the security deposit remainder within 30 days. If it is not done within 30 days, the landlord forfeits all rights to pursue for damage. At that point if it is not returned the tenant can sue the landlord for double the security deposit.
Even if you call the move-out or lease termination the end of January, he is well past 30 days.
Personally, I would remind him of this, and offer to let him return your security deposit and that you will move on, or you will sue him for double…
(Dom & Maggie - my home scanner is not working or I would e-mail you the page, when I’m in the office over the next couple days I’ll scan and forward you the copy of the landlord-tenant act)
btw, I’ve seen their lease and it’s incredible! only a page long, and with no tenant protection! it’s entirely Landlord baised! regardless of thier lease he’s still forfeited his right to collect by waiting over 30 days…
Section 250.512. Recovery of improperly held escrow funds
(a) Every landlord shall within thirty days of termination of a lease or upon
surrender and acceptance of the leasehold premises, whichever first occurs, provide a tenant
with a written list of any damages to the leasehold premises for which the landlord claims the
tenant is liable. Delivery of the list shall be accompanied by payment of the difference
between any sum deposited in escrow, including any unpaid interest thereon, for the paymentof damages to the leasehold premises and the actual amount of damages to the leasehold
premises caused by the tenant. Nothing in this section shall preclude the landlord from
refusing to return the escrow fund, including any unpaid interest thereon, for nonpayment of
rent or for the breach of any other condition in the lease by the tenant.
(b) Any landlord who fails to provide a written list within thirty days as required
in subsection (a), above, shall forfeit all rights to withhold any portion of sums held in escrow,
including any unpaid interest thereon, or to bring suit against the tenant for damages to the
leasehold premises.
(c) If the landlord fails to pay the tenant the difference between the sum
deposited, including any unpaid interest thereon, and the actual damages to the leasehold
premises caused by the tenant within thirty days after termination of the lease or surrender and
acceptance of the leasehold premises, the landlord shall be liable in assumpsit to double the
amount by which the sum deposited in escrow, including any unpaid interest thereon, exceeds
the actual damages to the leasehold premises caused by the tenant as determined by any
court of record or court not of record having jurisdiction in civil actions at law. The burden of
proof of actual damages caused by the tenant to the leasehold premises shall be on the
landlord.
(d) Any attempted waiver of this section by a tenant by contract or otherwise
shall be void and unenforceable.
(e) Failure of the tenant to provide the landlord with his new address in writing
upon termination of the lease or upon surrender and acceptance of the leasehold premises
shall relieve the landlord from any liability under this section.
(f) This section shall apply only to residential leaseholds and not to commercial
leaseholds.
Print that out and mail it to him with that section Highlighted, and a polite note stating you would like to have your security deposited returned, rather than taking him to court for double security and legal fees…
I have been successful in recovering funds against the security deposit post 30 days.
The situation was outstanding NSF checks by the tenant to municipal utilities. They default to property owner.
As I put in a pm to Magicalmarge, a couple things could work against her.
The vagueness of the lease termination/renewal and timing.
With regards to the pet fee, was the carpet cleaning necessary? I am unfamilar with this type of requirements. From what I can see, pets aren’t addressed in the PA landlord tenant agreement.
There was nothing listed on the lease that stated we HAD to clean the carpets for the pet. I can send a copy of the lease in a JPG form I scanned. Theres a possability I tossed the copy we had, but it was just a copied version from the original anyways. Im lucky i still had it in my email :hs: I thought this bullshit was well past when he was trying to bully us, which he is obviously doing.
Im just worried all the verbal agreements will be tossed out, but we did send a ceritified letter to him in dec stating we were leaving.And we returned the keys to him(before the end of jan) but didnt have a walk thru done as he didnt request it. I just love how much of a dick this guy was to maggie but everytime I talked to him in person he was fine. 2 faced as always.
sounds like a different situation, as long as notice to why the deposit is not being returned is given within 30 days, then it’s kosher. It’s when there is no notice, or action done within 30 days that it becomes an issue.
NSF are a seperate issue, and any collection efforts can begin whenever, as long as the deposit release rules are followed.
the renewal/termination is a different issue, and is seperate from the security deposit issue. It specifically notes “upon surruender and acceptance of the premises”
I work out of Coldwell Banker’s Property Management Department, and personally handle 30+ properties, our department has close to 600, and we are religious about release of security deposit to avoid hassle with both owners we represent and tenants (I certainly don’t want to sit at a magistrate unpaid)
Verbal agreements in Real Estate are not enforceable in Court, only written. I imagine it would carry over… could depend on the magistrate as well.
Which is what I am most afraid of for this mess. I mean reading the law we should be covered. But, for all i know he has the judge as his best friend and we’re fucked.
I would have given my left nut a year or two ago to have a tenant as courteous and aware as you two are. I had a guy that I just wanted to freakin’ kill. Wouldn’t move out, wouldn’t pay, etc… Luckily I had all my ducks in a row in terms of the lease and got at least a little of the money.
Anyways, you’re going to be in the clear as far as the carpet goes, at least I think so based on my past issues with my uncle who rents a lot of properties. You’re probably going to get stuck in court one way or the other regarding it, but I’d do what Foz says first and send that little section from the attorney general over and see what he has to say about that.
I requested a walk through in the letter terminating our lease, but he never scheduled one.
He didn’t waive anything, he added $25 a month to our rent because we had 2 cats-which he allowed and was in the lease.
This is what I was confused about, I saw a website that claimed he could not counter sue us for damages if we only sued for the amount of security deposit. It said that if we sued for double the amount, he could counter sue for damages.
I think I will send him a certified letter stating that I am not going to pay these damages and that I want our security deposit back within one week or I will file a suit. Of course I will include a copy of the landlord tenant act just in case he thinks I’m stupid.
This is my plan, if I still don’t get our money back I will go to the magistrate. However, this section of the landlord tenant act has me a bit perplexed:
(c) If the landlord fails to pay the tenant the difference between the sum
deposited, including any unpaid interest thereon, and the actual damages to the leasehold
premises caused by the tenant within thirty days after termination of the lease or surrender and
acceptance of the leasehold premises, the landlord shall be liable in assumpsit to double the
amount by which the sum deposited in escrow, including any unpaid interest thereon, exceeds
the actual damages to the leasehold premises caused by the tenant as determined by any
court of record or court not of record having jurisdiction in civil actions at law. The burden of
proof of actual damages caused by the tenant to the leasehold premises shall be on the
landlord.
So, since he is saying we owe him $16XX or so more than the security deposit, doesn’t this mean that we would not be entitled to any of our security deposit?
To whom it may concern:
On 03/25/2008 we received a bill from Residential Properties Incorporated for a total of $2254.00 less our $575.00 security deposit for a balance due of $1679.00. The bill states this amount is to pay for the replacement of carpet, touch up painting and general cleaning of the apartment we rented from December 31, 2007 until January 21, 2008 at 65 Locust Ridge Drive Apartment 2C Pittsburgh, Pa 15209.
Due to the failure of your company to send this bill or our security deposit within 30 days of the termination of our lease, as per the Landlord Tenant Act of 1951, we request that our security deposit be mailed to us at 148 Howard Street, Pittsburgh, Pa 15235. If we do not receive our security deposit of $575.00 within one week of your receipt of this letter, we will file a civil suit against you for double the amount of our security deposit. Enclosed with this letter you will find a copy of Section 250.215 of the Landlord Tenant Act of 1951 for your information.
