This is a great upgrade.
That is a huge amount of rotating mass!
Get some of those nifty CF wheels and Michelin Pilot Sport tires for another great upgrade.
Technical question; With carbon ceramic couldn’t you dramitically downsize the rotor diameter greatly reducing the polar moment of inertia AND cost?
I mean with these materials do you really need big brakes?
Your tires will melt before these brakes will fail.:biglaugh:
[quote=“Carnut,post:10,topic:35282"”]
nice. Being a stoptech dealer I will probably get like 10 emails about this
[/quote]
You will now. nice plug.
granted they will disperse heat better, but i’d imagine there would still be some sacrifice by having a rotor with less surface area to dissipate the heat
and i wouldnt necessarily want these on something i drive to work. I can’t imagine they’d be too great cold.
+1 for wearing gloves when I work on teh car.
[quote=“sedlmeier101,post:5,topic:35282"”]
I kinda think wearing gloves while working on your car is gay…
Unless you have bad allergys and need to whip your eyes
[/quote]
or you do real work and dont want to spend 30 minutes scrubbing your hands every time you need to be presentable at work or out.
not to mention the skin cracking or getting scrubbed off
15k for 4 wheels? Not bad considering the kit to upgrade your Porsche is 20K from the dealer…lol
[quote=“Viper966,post:8,topic:35282"”]
why wouldnt it be streetable? the porsche system certainly is…
price i havnt seen yet, but im not sure
stoptech is making these for consumers not race teasm so id imagine ur looking at ~750-1000 per
im not 100% interested in them for brake fade, more so for light weight, as dropping ~40lbs of unsprung weight would be awesome!
if the rotors i have now cost ~350-500 per wheel and i have to replace them every 2 years, going ceramic for 2x the price and 4-5x the wear resistace will be worth it
[/quote]
So these rotors are supposed to last longer than what’s on the market now? That’s what I meant by streetable. Yeah, you pay out the ass for weight savings, but if the performance advantage v.s. replacement schedule/cost isn’t there , then it really isn’t streetable unless you have lots of money to waste. How much will brake pads cost? Are you using the same pads or something proprietary to the rotor? How will the life of the pads be affected by the material? What’s the life expectancy on those? Do you need to heat them up to achieve the necessary advnatages?
Not to mention when on the street will you ever use these brakes to their full capacity? :meh:
everything in this thread was as expected.
[quote=“Rx3,post:6,topic:35282"”]
I can see a Time Attack car using these no question (or a track car for club racing, etc.). Other than that there is no reason to use these things.
[/quote]
I could question it, especially considering there are thousands of cars using stock calipers, metal blanks and have no braking problems. I would say that most can lock up r-comps at full tilt at the end of a race session (up to full temp).
[quote=“Viper966,post:8,topic:35282"”]
more so for light weight, as dropping ~40lbs of unsprung weight would be awesome!
[/quote]
Weight savings? Please tell how being forced to run a larger wheel and tire package (that has very little to do with performance) is going to save weight?
If you really want to save wieght put on smaller calipers, smaller rotors, smaller wheels and tires. As newman said lighter rotors are going to be less noticable than lighter wheels. A 19" wheel is going to have a much higher moment of inertia than a 15" caliper.
If it were me I’d put the stock calipers on, try my harderst to find 17"s that would fit (move the even lower amount of mass closer to the hub).
well, I see where you are going… but with a lot of power and weight… (let’s use a stock weight M3 as an example) you’re going to seriously heat up brakes causing them to fade sooner then a lightweight race car.
as you know, the better you get at track days / racing, the less brakes you need in general… but a heavy car with a good bit of power will always heat up brakes.
^^i agree. it doesn’t make sense that you save rotor weight and then put it right back on at the rim. you would need a rim that was the same weight as a stocker or smaller one to make it work.
if you did that wouldn’t you be sacrificing strength in the rim??
[quote=“theblue,post:29,topic:35282"”]
but a heavy car with a good bit of power will always heat up brakes.
[/quote]
The STOCK brake system M3 in T2 do just fine …
Today at the SCCA runoffs Will Turner came in 3rd place in the T2 division at Heartland Park. He was beat by two STI’s. He was in second plance most of the race but the heavy nature of the car just could not keep up with the AWD. The M3 did a great job under heavy braking - 135 down to 45 and would catch the STi’s in hard braking areas. Overall one of the better SCCA events this weekend. There were 3 other M3s in this class and none of those fared well. It will be on SPEED in Nov.
:gotme:
[quote=“fairgentleman Z,post:31,topic:35282"”]
The STOCK brake system M3 in T2 do just fine …
:gotme:
[/quote]
:word: All the extra weight in bigger calipers and wheels is going to offset any savings from the rotors themselves it seems.
^ Calipers are NOT rotating mass but they are unsprung weight which effects suspension performance.
Physics 101…
Light tires = best
Light wheels = great
Light rotors = very good
Light calipers = good
In other words, the less mass you have on the bigger diameter the better.
Or, try to keep as much mass near center as possible.
I just mounted new tires on the Xterra and I couldn’t beleive how much they weighed.
I am used to little low profile tires.
All I could think is how much torque these big tires rob.
Imagine a monster truck tire!!!