Here is a good example for those who are having a hard time grasping this concept. Attach a rope to a wall. Put a treadmill in front of that wall and get a skateboard. Stand on the skateboard on the treadmill and hold on to the rope. No matter how fast the skateboard’s wheels are moving because of the treadmill going in the opposite direction, you can still move forward by pulling on the rope.
is pulling on the rope actually the same as the engine’s thrust against the air though?
i think they’re slightly different… not really comparable…
[quote=“badazzss,post:462,topic:37377"”]
is pulling on the rope actually the same as the engine’s thrust against the air though?
i think they’re slightly different… not really comparable…
[/quote]
Pretend that there are no wheels on this plane, just skis. Run that treadmill as fast as you want and the plane still takes off…
[quote=“16vCorvette,post:454,topic:37377"”]
Strap a plane to a dyno and see what kind of power is produced
[/quote]
it will produce none because the wheels on the plane has no power to it…if im correct.
[quote=“Fry,post:453,topic:37377"”]
Wrong. The treadmill exerts no force on the plane, only spins the wheels freely. The plane moves forward completely uninhibited by the treadmill.
[/quote]
:wtf: u got to be kidding me right? how does it move forward? when the speed of the treadmill going
<--------
-------->
speed of wheels spinning
they are equal speeds so they cancel out…its like your airplane is at a stand still on the runway…
[quote=“badazzss,post:462,topic:37377"”]
is pulling on the rope actually the same as the engine’s thrust against the air though?
i think they’re slightly different… not really comparable…
[/quote]
yes the rope can be looked at as the engine’s thrust, because like a jet engine, the rope allows a FORCE to be applied on a body that’s completely independent of any surface that the body might be riding on.
[quote=“RuBiCaNT,post:461,topic:37377"”]
Here is a good example for those who are having a hard time grasping this concept.Stand on a treadmill in one spot,then crank it all the way up to 10 so you fly off and die.
[/quote]
:word: 
Planes require MINIMAL FRICTION (i.e wheels/bearings) to accelerate quickly.
Cars require MAXIMUM FRICTION (i.e. wheels/tires) to accelerate quickly.
Planes are designed to have minimal ground friction so the conveyor is of ZERO importance. Hell, a plane is hindered more on take off due to air resistance then it is from wheel bearing reistance.
why are so many people trying to convert all the idiots??
The people that don’t get it just ignore the valid points or cover them up with false “what ifs.”
[quote=“RuBiCaNT,post:461,topic:37377"”]
Here is a good example for those who are having a hard time grasping this concept. Attach a rope to a wall. Put a treadmill in front of that wall and get a skateboard. Stand on the skateboard on the treadmill and hold on to the rope. No matter how fast the skateboard’s wheels are moving because of the treadmill going in the opposite direction, you can still move forward by pulling on the rope.
[/quote]
Holding onto that rope represents you already exerting forward thrust to keep you in a constant position on the treadmill.
A plane on a treadmill doesn’t have a string to hold on to. The plane has to use its trust to move forward, and the treadmill will counteract that forward motion.
At a point the jet engine will be running at full capacity, unable to generate any more forward thrust, and if the treadmill moves the same speed in the opposite direction, the plane will not move, and there will be no lift off.
Now if you hand the pilot a string at this point, and he has a winch in the plane capable of winding up string fast enough to get the plane moving 150 mph (or whatever take off speed is) then the plane could take off. But he better make sure he has room for all that string in the cargo hold…
HHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAH
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
(breath)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
HAHAHA AHA HAH HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
HAHAHAH
HAHAH
HAHA
HAH
HA
OMG
[quote=“SubaruDan,post:471,topic:37377"”]
Holding onto that rope represents you already exerting forward thrust to keep you in a constant position on the treadmill.
A plane on a treadmill doesn’t have a string to hold on to. The plane has to use its trust to move forward, and the treadmill will counteract that forward motion.
At a point the jet engine will be running at full capacity, unable to generate any more forward thrust, and if the treadmill moves the same speed in the opposite direction, the plane will not move, and there will be no lift off.
Now if you hand the pilot a string at this point, and he has a winch in the plane capable of winding up string fast enough to get the plane moving 150 mph (or whatever take off speed is) then the plane could take off. But he better make sure he has room for all that string in the cargo hold…
[/quote]
I see what you’re saying, but fundamentally you are waaaaaaaaaaay underestimating the thrust of a jet engine and waaaaaaaaaaaay overestimating wheel bearing friction.
[quote=“SubaruDan,post:471,topic:37377"”]
Holding onto that rope represents you already exerting forward thrust to keep you in a constant position on the treadmill.
A plane on a treadmill doesn’t have a string to hold on to. The plane has to use its trust to move forward, and the treadmill will counteract that forward motion.
At a point the jet engine will be running at full capacity, unable to generate any more forward thrust, and if the treadmill moves the same speed in the opposite direction, the plane will not move, and there will be no lift off.
Now if you hand the pilot a string at this point, and he has a winch in the plane capable of winding up string fast enough to get the plane moving 150 mph (or whatever take off speed is) then the plane could take off. But he better make sure he has room for all that string in the cargo hold…
[/quote]
jesus, here do this to see the interaction of FREE SPINNING WHEELS on a body on a tread mill.
Find ideal bearings, ie as little as friction as possible, and install them in your rollerblades now make sure the treadmill is exactly level, stand on tread mill, lean slightly forward to counter act the little friction that will still exist in the bearings, turn on the treadmill and progressively bring it up to speed. See you are not going anywhere, now have you friend/girlfriend/parent come up and bash you in the back of the head with a Louisville Slugger for being a complete twat.
/experiment
^ win
After you get hit with the bat, have them give you a little “thrust” and see if you move forward 
The espisode stayed grounded.
Much like the plan would have anyway.
FUCK.
[quote=“SI01,post:478,topic:37377"”]
The espisode stayed grounded.
Much like the plan would have anyway.
[/quote]
Much like your spelling of plane.