Policing "Forum Sponsors and Advertisers" Section / negativity in general

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21

To play devils advocate, this is a community forum that allows advertising not an advertising site. If you want to advertise somewhere with one way communication try TV, radio or newspaper. If you advertise here, on a public forum, why shouldn’t the forum members be allowed to post their experiences with your shop or cheaper alternatives to the product you are selling? If you have truely great service or an honest deal on what you’re selling it shouldn’t be a problem. Sure, someone may suggest some no name ebay special as an alternative to the name brand you’re selling, but that’s an option the consumer has. If your product really is superior you wouldn’t be afraid to post why and educate your consumer as well as the other potential consumers reading the thread. If on the other hand your name brand product is no different from the 50% cheaper no name I think the forum as served its members by allowing them to see the cheaper alternative.

I realize you as a paying advertiser should be protected from completely off topic posts or flat out harassment, but to limit it to advertiser only posting forums seem to defeat the intent of a discussion forum.

22

[quote=“JayS,post:21,topic:37342"”]

To play devils advocate, this is a community forum that allows advertising not an advertising site. If you want to advertise somewhere with one way communication try TV, radio or newspaper. If you advertise here, on a public forum, why shouldn’t the forum members be allowed to post their experiences with your shop or cheaper alternatives to the product you are selling?

[/quote]

Because half the morons cant distinguish between constructive and intelligent discussion and ignorant, personal bickering which turns into slander.

[quote=“JayS,post:21,topic:37342"”]

If you have truely great service or an honest deal on what you’re selling it shouldn’t be a problem.

[/quote]

It is a PROBLEM because someone as busy as Mike doesnt have the time to devote to DEFENDING himself personally and his business from idiots posting. He shouldnt have to spant the time and effort to deal with STUPIDITY when running a business. That is the job of mods… to decide what is allowable .

[quote=“JayS,post:21,topic:37342"”]

If your product really is superior you wouldn’t be afraid to post why and educate your consumer as well as the other potential consumers reading the thread. If on the other hand your name brand product is no different from the 50% cheaper no name I think the forum as served its members by allowing them to see the cheaper alternative.

I realize you as a paying advertiser should be protected from completely off topic posts or flat out harassment, but to limit it to advertiser only posting forums seem to defeat the intent of a discussion forum.

[/quote]

Thism has turned from discussion forum to Dummies Amusement Forum
It should be Moderated with a heavier hand IMO.
Advertisers and Paying contributors should not have to deal with any bullshit. This is supposed to be a Automotive Enthusiast forum… not the local circlejerk click and instant amusement at the expense of others…

23

Lots of good points brought up here. I’ll offer my 2c.

First off, I suppose I’m curious if it’s advertiser income or user income…or even administrator income that keeps this site up and running. I would imagine it’s a combination of all 3, but don’t know for sure. If it’s primarily advertisers, then I would have to say that we should enjoy a reasonable amount of protection against competing products/services that are not contributing to this site. However, with that said, I’m still a proponent of a laissez-faire type of economy here. A bit of moderation is fine if things get out of hand, but it’s up to us, as responsible business people, to provide excellent service/product. If we don’t do so, then the rest of the forum has a right to know why, as long is it’s not pure conjecture, and there are facts to back up such claims.

Being totally honest, I was a bit hesitant to begin advertising here, mainly because of 2 reasons:

  1. the never ending f-body drama
  2. the never ending childish/sexist/misogynist comments that is tossed around in a sizable percentage of posts

With that said, I still took the plunge knowing that in between #1 and #2 above, there are still plenty of folks on here who: 1) are true car enthusiasts and 2) don’t work on their own stuff and are always looking for a reputable shop

I’m of the opinion that if a shop provides superior service at a reasonable price, then there’s no room for drama and BS. If a client is dissatisfied, it’s up to us to make it right, within reason anyway.

24

why is sherms post and after about the Fbody drama in PMperfornace shop updates still there? now the thread is locked and there even worse for PM. I flagged it like 5mins after the shit started getting posted. The sticky on the sponcer section list the rules about shitting up the sponcer info/build threads. As paul said to me last night. " I can’t wait to go on NYspeed and see 9pages of one sided bashing" when we get home after NYI. New Era has some things going on car related we dont post here becuse of the dramma, so we only do on “better” car sites.

25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rx3
If you have specific questions not related to the subject of the thread, PM THE VENDOR! Do not clutter up these threads with useless banter. Failure to heed this warning can result in a ban, and I’m not talking 3 days either.

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[quote=“Violator,post:22,topic:37342"”]

It is a PROBLEM because someone as busy as Mike doesnt have the time to devote to DEFENDING himself personally and his business from idiots posting. He shouldnt have to spant the time and effort to deal with STUPIDITY when running a business. That is the job of mods… to decide what is allowable .

[/quote]

Agreed, but there are two sides to this. Yes, if you post complete BS in an advertisers threads the ban hammer should come down on you. Plain and simple. I wouldn’t argue if someone suggested it was time for a good mass banning.

But the suggestion that only advertisers be allowed to post goes too far IMHO. One of the specific examples Mike brought up was putting a name brand item up for sale and someone ends up posting that they can get the no-name version on ebay for half the price. Welcome to advertising where the consumer doesn’t only hear the advertising firm’s brainwashing message. If you don’t want to spend the time to explain why your name brand product is better, or simply can’t, you probably should stick to advertising mediums where only your opinion can be expressed.

Maybe members post the cheaper alternative because they honestly feel that NYSpeed is a COMMUNITY, and don’t want to see members of their community getting ripped off. Or maybe they incorrectly believe the no-name brand is just as good while in reality for reasons X,Y and Z it isn’t. In either case the discussion needs to be two sided. If that discussion strays at all from legitmate the ban hammer should come down swiftly.

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[quote=“Studderin,post:24,topic:37342"”]

why is sherms post and after about the Fbody drama in PMperfornace shop updates still there? now the thread is locked and there even worse for PM. I flagged it like 5mins after the shit started getting posted. The sticky on the sponcer section list the rules about shitting up the sponcer info/build threads. As paul said to me last night. " I can’t wait to go on NYspeed and see 9pages of one sided bashing" when we get home after NYI. New Era has some things going on car related we dont post here becuse of the dramma, so we only do on “better” car sites.

[/quote]

You guys have drama on here…That shit with Mondi a while back the…You guys chose to deal with it in a responsible and professional manner…

Edit: They make a spell check utility for firefox…Might want to consider it.

Edit Edit: Another idea as a shop owner you may want to consider not pissing off a large number of members and trying to keep your self out of drama…that is just normal practice for most successful businesses.

28

[quote=“JayS,post:26,topic:37342"”]

But the suggestion that only advertisers be allowed to post goes too far IMHO. One of the specific examples Mike brought up was putting a name brand item up for sale and someone ends up posting that they can get the no-name version on ebay for half the price. Welcome to advertising where the consumer doesn’t only hear the advertising firm’s brainwashing message. If you don’t want to spend the time to explain why your name brand product is better, or simply can’t, you probably should stick to advertising mediums where only your opinion can be expressed.

[/quote]

Thats what gen auto is for.

scenario: I own a shop that sells skunk2 short shifters. i post and say I can get em for 100 a piece. Thats an advertisement FOR MY SHOP, paid for by me. There should be no reason why people should then come in and advertise FOR OTHER VENDORS.

If you bought an ebay shifter and like it better then skunk2’s shifters, then post in gen auto saying that you have found a cheap alternative to skunk2 shifters. Dont step on the shop owner’s toes by posting it in his thread.

29

[quote=“boardjnky4,post:28,topic:37342"”]

Thats what gen auto is for.

scenario: I own a shop that sells skunk2 short shifters. i post and say I can get em for 100 a piece. Thats an advertisement FOR MY SHOP, paid for by me. There should be no reason why people should then come in and advertise FOR OTHER VENDORS.

If you bought an ebay shifter and like it better then skunk2’s shifters, then post in gen auto saying that you have found a cheap alternative to skunk2 shifters. Dont step on the shop owner’s toes by posting it in his thread.

[/quote]

Our opinions differ because I think by advertising in a medium that is based on member discussion you’re inviting these comparisions to be made. I can understand your position that paid advertisers should be allowed to list a product without competing products being discussed, I just don’t agree with it.

A forum, by definion, is for open discussion. Sometimes it’s way too open, and that should be stopped, but it shouldn’t be one way communication.

30

There is a much easier solution to this problem…

ban everyone that owns a f-body, any and all major drama comes from them anwyays.

ok but in all seriousness, I agree something needs to be done. It is far too easy for someone to tarnish a business, especially if it is someone that has posted on here for a long time, they have a lot of swing. It is really easy for someone to get pissed off and throw a thread together, and it could serverly harm a business.

flip-side, it keeps vendors/advertisers very cautious of the product/service they turn out… if they are an advertiser on here, the forum is essentially advocating the use of their service/shop, and I would like to think if I am being pointed to these shops I am going to get good service. Luckily here, the shops that are represented on this forum are good people…

I know when I had my issues with A1JDM engines back in the UBRF days I waited a long time before I publicly bitched about them, and I would like to think it was the right thing to do. I’d hate for me to have kept my mouth shut and have a friend go and get boned also. There is ALWAYS going to be two sides to the story, it is not necessarily bad for the public to hear them.

31

I’m agreeing with most points here.

Most shops live and die by personal referrals.

I also think that at some point in a disagreement between a person and a shop, the disagreement is going to be aired, if all else fails. I’ve had to do this once or twice in the past as well. However, as it’s all playing out over the course of weeks/months/whatever, I keep a diary of every discussion, every promise, every person I speak with complete with dates and times. If you as the customer, have a beef with an advertiser, it’s a damn good idea to be pretty detailed with your grievance. In all of the drama I’ve seen aired over the past few months, I’ve seen this sort of documentation once.

[quote=“chino,post:30,topic:37342"”]

There is a much easier solution to this problem…

ban everyone that owns a f-body, any and all major drama comes from them anwyays.

ok but in all seriousness, I agree something needs to be done. It is far too easy for someone to tarnish a business, especially if it is someone that has posted on here for a long time, they have a lot of swing. It is really easy for someone to get pissed off and throw a thread together, and it could serverly harm a business.

flip-side, it keeps vendors/advertisers very cautious of the product/service they turn out… if they are an advertiser on here, the forum is essentially advocating the use of their service/shop, and I would like to think if I am being pointed to these shops I am going to get good service. Luckily here, the shops that are represented on this forum are good people…

I know when I had my issues with A1JDM engines back in the UBRF days I waited a long time before I publicly bitched about them, and I would like to think it was the right thing to do. I’d hate for me to have kept my mouth shut and have a friend go and get boned also. There is ALWAYS going to be two sides to the story, it is not necessarily bad for the public to hear them.

[/quote]

32

Everyone here has made a valid point… The mods just need to determine if this forum is a type of forum is in joeS argument or inntune and blackforests. Is this going to be a free open opinion forum or a personal protected intrest forum?

When the moderators decide (and hopefully openly post that), then you vendors need to decide if this is a community that you want to pay to, and be a part of, no matter how much of your business is derived from this site.

Either way there needs to be an opening page diclaimer as to what members (and vendors) are getting into by joining these boards.
There trully always will be two sides to the arguement.

33

^ It’s JayS, not JoeS. JoeS is way too close to JoesTypeS and I really don’t want the two of us confused.

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[quote=“JayS,post:33,topic:37342"”]

^ It’s JayS, not JoeS. JoeS is way too close to JoesTypeS and I really don’t want the two of us confused.

[/quote]

LOL sorry, posting from a phone, dint wanna hit the back button.

35

JayS I said it before and boardjnky pointed it out. I encourage discussion and people suggesting alternatives. Just keep it in the proper place. The advertiser section is for the vendor to post sales. Gen. Auto is for discussion.

When I put unleaded 112 race gas up for sale in my section and someone posts “Go buy leaded 108 (C12) race gas here instead” that post got moved to Gen. Auto as it should. It was not deleted. My sale thread was left clean and a discussion happened about the pros and cons of leaded vs. unleaded fuel in a new thread in Gen. Auto. You’re more likely to get a good discussion when it’s in Gen. Auto than in a classified ad AND the advertisers are kept happy.

I’m sick of posting a simple sale on a part and having it turn into pages of off topic babbling. As Violator said this happens all the time. I post a fuel pump for sale, people start talking about what they ate that day or where they can get a sick haircut, nobody can figure out what the heck the thread is about anymore, and we don’t sell anything.

Howie - Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I’m curious what you come up with. I’m rooting for the Parts Review and Vendor Review sections, but anything you can do to help is appreciated.

36

[quote=“Inn-Tune,post:35,topic:37342"”]

Howie - Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I’m curious what you come up with. I’m rooting for the Parts Review and Vendor Review sections, but anything you can do to help is appreciated.

[/quote]

We’re testing it now, and I think it will be exactly what you and the other paying advertisers will need to keep the BS out of your business threads.

That being said, I know I said if there were problems report the post (via the report post icon) or PM a mod. Speaking for myself, no one PMed me about any problems, and I don’t claim to read everything on this board. So if you didn’t follow my advice, it wouldn’t surprise me that nothing was done. That falls on you.

As was stated before, discussion/comparison should take place in Gen-Auto.

Drama and Bullshit should be in Off-topic.

37

[quote=“bracketracer,post:23,topic:37342"”]

I’m of the opinion that if a shop provides superior service at a reasonable price, then there’s no room for drama and BS. If a client is dissatisfied, it’s up to us to make it right, within reason anyway.

[/quote]

Agreed.

Your personal character and work should speak for itself.

There have been times where my business and character have been insulted by someone who may not understand or know a full situation and those who have had first hand experience with me have come to my aid. I didn’t have to say a word enough of the members here have said enought for me.

It’s a free country, say what you want. If it’s something dumb then your peers will label you as dumb. If it’s intelligible you will gain respect. It’s that simple.

I understand where Mike is coming from. I don’t fully agree 100% but he makes some valid points.

Do what you guys have to do.

Where is this “report post” icon?

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[quote=“Carnut,post:37,topic:37342"”]

Where is this “report post” icon?

[/quote]

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[quote=“bracketracer,post:23,topic:37342"”]

I’m of the opinion that if a shop provides superior service at a reasonable price, then there’s no room for drama and BS. If a client is dissatisfied, it’s up to us to make it right, within reason anyway.

[/quote]

[quote=“bracketracer,post:31,topic:37342"”]

Most shops live and die by personal referrals.

[/quote]

:clap: