Rent Vs. Buy Myths That Ruined the Housing Market

The question is how long do you want to ride out the investment? See my post above. I have money tied up in my businesses, housing, investment property, money markets, 401k, IRAs, short term CDs, etc. Diversify my friend.

You know I was living OK in NY on about 55k a year… I am living much better now and have increased my net worth and income by more than double through real estate. You just have to know what you are doing and get yourself in position to get the best possible deal. You know I still have hook ups in WNY for real estate, foreclosures, lenders, etc.

I own and will never rent again unless I buy a double and rent it out.

First of all, I co-own a title company and I own my own real estate investment company. I have a BA in Law from UB and 9 years of experience in the real estate/mortgage industry.

When I first broke into the business I was closing mortgage loans at around 10 - 11% interest and that was for people with ‘good credit’. Today good credit (680 fico or better) can get you between 5.75 - 6% interest. So overall there is already a benefit just in rate reduction over the past 9 years.

Also, the myth about closing costs… SELLERS pay the real estate commission, it is clearly stated in the NY State Bar real estate sale contract (and in FL and just about every other ‘title’ state), title evidence (search, exam, owner’s title insurance, etc.) and the survey is also the SELLER’s responsibility. So the claim of 5% overall closing costs and 6% to the realtors is FALSE.

The most expensive part of buying a house and where a MAJORITY of closing costs come from is when a lender is involved. Cash transactions typically have WAY less closing costs. LENDERS charge discount points, closing fees, appraisal fees, credit report fees, etc. etc. which is usually around 2% - 3% of the loan amount in closing costs.

The problems stated in the original post are mostly attributes of the ‘Zero money down, adjustable rate, stated income and interest only mortgages’ that are now not available due to the reformation of the mortgage industry. For instance, here in FL the housing prices shot up DRAMATICALLY in the past 5 years due to the thriving market and demand. Lenders were giving loans to people with a heartbeat who could sign their name because housing was appreciateing so rapidly they took a calculated risk that if they had to foreclose, the house would be worth more or as much as the original loan amount.

The problem is, buyers who were either ignorant, stupid, or both signed up for loans they could NOT afford when the rates adjusted or when the interest only period expired. Also, without putting money down adn paying interest only, people had no EQUITY into their homes of their own and when the values of homes declined in recent months, they were unable to refinance due to houses not appraising at original value.

Buying a house still is the best investment. If you look at the past 30 years overall as a whole you will see that houses typically appreciate at a rate of 100% return every 10 years, even with ups and downs in the market. If you put the same money into say a money market you might get a return in 10 years of at best 5%, stocks and mutual funds at about 11%. BUT, you should diversify and not put all your eggs into one basket either.

Owning a house builds wealth over time, typically homeowners who are responsible with their credit have a much better credit rating than someone making the same money with similar debt who does not own a home. Also, home equity lines of credit have a much better rate then unsecured loans and you can use the equity in your home to pay off high interest debt and consolidate debt into a more manageable payments and save yourself anywhere from 10 - 15% in interest. I can proudly say I that I have NO credit card debt and with my credit (which is in the 700’s) my credit card rates are around 11 - 12% and I still only use them as needed and typically pay the entire balance every month.

The best thing you can do when buying a house to make sure you are in a win/win situation (even in this market) is to PUT MONEY DOWN when purchasing. At minimum 5% is required by lenders now for purchases. If you can afford it put down 20% (that is the ‘magic’ number) because you will eliminate PMI (private mortgage insurance, which all lenders require unless you have 20% or more in equity into your home and it will save you at least 2% of your loan amount in PMI).

Search around, shop lenders and rates and right now you can purchase homes under market. I am loooking at another property here in FL for my investment company to ‘flip’ (and no, it is not like the partially bullshit TV show) that when all said and done, even in this market, I could stand to make about $35,000 in about 3 months or less (already even have a buyer lined up). Don’t be afraid to look at short sales (pre-foreclosures), REO’s (foreclosed properties) and distressed properties… they have so much potential equity into them if you know what you are doing and buy it in the right location. Do your homework and research, talk to someone who knows what they are doing and have no fear, you will end up over time much better off owning than renting.

I was just about to type all that… :clap:

no problem, anytime!

With sub 6% interest rates I can’t really think of a good reason to put any money down. Maybe if you’re extremely skeptical of the economy, but hell I have a savings account that yields >4%. It shouldn’t be too hard to make your money work harder than 6%. Liquidity is nice to have too.

well, if you can get 20% then you’ll save PMI @ 60-100 per mo.

but if you have other debt then it needs to be a calculated choice.

I financed 100% and don’t pay PMI. There are ways around it.

If you find/buy a house that is assess for more that 20% over buying price a creative bank can give you a mortgage for 80% and a home equity line of credit for 20% to skip the PMI issue.

a $25k equity line of credit is tax deductible and is a much lower cost than a PMI. You are basically paying yourself.

when I did the math an 80/20 loan ended up costing me more than PMI.

Fry, I’m curious what your way around it was? military loan or something crazy?

how was an 80/20 more?.. did you look into the BOA no fee loan with no PMI and no closing costs?

you pay for everything regardless of what they call it – a loan like that just takes less cash up front. Do you really think there are no closing costs etc? all that shit’s just getting rolled in via. interest rate or higher total loans.

when I looked at the interest on the 20% loan over time vs. just paying PMI and factored in the same payment and how long it would take to get to 20% I found that I spent less money overall by using PMI.

this is true for a lot of people. we’re trained to want to avoid PMI, even when it doesn’t make financial sense. BOA is probably making more money from you on the 20% loan + closing costs they have rolled in vs. a more traditional approach.

what is the BOA interest rate on this loan? is it the same rate for the 20%?

Naw. They don’t give military loans to guys that only shoot small game. (I’m a civilian.)

IIRC we paid a slightly higher interest rate. We’re only staying in this house for around 5 years so that way saved a few bucks.

+1000

If it is not an 80/20 loan AND you got 100% financing, you paid PMI, even with your ‘higher interest rate’. You could have paid it upfront (at 2%) or as discount points (which are supposed to lower your rate, you are basically buying down your rate).

There are NO 100% financing loans that do not have PMI. And even with a high 700 credit score you will not get a CONVENTIONAL 100% finance loan unless you go to a hard money lender and pay 12-15%!!

The whole ‘wealth building’ aspect of homeownership does you no good until you have some of your own equity into the home. And usually, the bigger your down payment and the more equity you have into the house, the better your finance rate.

Anyways, this is like :deadhorse:

but the whole argument to putting little down (when you have money) is that you can make more money via investing vs. putting that into the house where you can borrow money cheaply.

With the BOA no closing cost no PMI loan, i am diong 95% LTV and i am paying 5.75 % interest with 1 point in discount points, and no closing costs (save the discount points and taxes)

i cant find anything close to this anywhere on the market… BOA is even paying for my personal attorney

Average 10 year return on investments (taken from tiaa-cref as of 2/29/08 Performance of Mutual Funds and In-Plan Annuities | TIAA):

World/Global Equities: 4.51%
US Stocks: 4.80%
Money Market: 3.62%
Bond Market: 5.78%
Real Estate: 9.73% (this includes the recent down-turn, last year, 10 year figures were at around 12.35%)

But, again, I do say diversify and use a balanced approach to investing. And all the ‘liquid’ cash is nice to have, but realistically, even in an interest bearing checking or savings account you aren’t getting more than a 2-3% return, you might as well put it under the mattress.

more info please