STM Spring Open House / Dyno Day (4-25-09)

[MrSmith]

@newman

Smith you have to be joking.

You have to be.

HORSEPOWER IS A UNIT. It is defined.

0 Degrees Celcius = 32 Degrees Fahrenheit = 273.15 Degrees Kelvin.

They are different units.

However:

100 HP /= 150 HP /= 300 HP

How can someone be so stupid.

Seriously I cannot believe you are this short sighted. I thought you were a sharp kid.
For the last time.

You are MEASURING THE SAME THING using a DIFFERENT TOOL set up with a DIFFERENT SCALE.

Given the freezing point:

0 Degrees Celcius = 32 Degrees Fahrenheit = 273.15 Degrees Kelvin.

THEY ALL MEASURE “DEGREES”. THEY ALL MEAN THE SAME THING. THE FREEZING POINT OF WATER.

Given a car that went 10.0 at 140 you just put on different dynos:

600 whp Dynojet = 500 whp Mustang = say 520 whp Dynapack.

THEY ALL MEASURE “HP”. THEY ALL MEAN THE SAME THING. CAR MAKES ENOUGH TO POWER TO RUN THAT ET AND TRAP.

I feel like I am arguing with a pack of kids that just got off the short bus.

[newman]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Just because they all have degrees in the name does not make them the same thing.

ok. Use that logic here:

12 inches = 1 foot = 30.4 cm

i know what you are trying to say but you are WRONG.

1 HORSEPOWER IS A PREDEFINED UNIT OF MEASUREMENT. It cannot equal anything other than what it is defined as. I don’t care what you measured it with. If you are measuring the same thing, in the same units, and you are getting two different numbers then one of the tools is WRONG.

If you always want to tack the type of dyno on the end, then you are essentially creating a NEW unit.

@MrSmith

600 whp Dynojet = 500 whp Mustang = say 520 whp Dynapack.

You can say this and i agree with it.

But you can’t say just call it horsepower.

1HP = .8 Mustang HP = 1.2 Dynapack HP etc.

But you can’t call it horsepower, because it’s not. It’s a totally new unit that is proportional to horsepower.

You are arguing with an engineer. Units are JUST as important as scalar numbers to us.

If I want to measure a line that is 6 inches long, and the ruler I made measures it as 5 inches, then I am wrong.

If I want to measure a line that is 6 inches long, and the ruler I made measures it as 5 newman inches, then I am right, but only because I have created a NEW UNIT.

But if i were to ever refer to the length as 5 inches, I AM WRONG.

[jt76]

lol at this, Newman has valid points IMO…

And i should have brought the TA up for some free dyno time :lol:

[Nikuk]

Smith - you do not take a measurement of the temperature with degrees ANYTHING.

You measure the temperature with a thermometer of some type.

The thermometer is the tool.

The tool uses a standard (mercury).

The standard is universal.

The standard is converted into degrees Kelvin, Farenheit, Celsius.

The dynomometer is the termometer here… but there is NO STANDARD (mercury) in a dyno. Whereas dynojet uses an inertial load; mustang uses a eddy current; dynapack uses a brake.

NOT STANDARD.

ITS ALL FUCKING RICER MATH ON HOW TO STROKE THE BIGGEST DICK.

The only thing that matters is the torque curve, horespower is NOTHING but a mathmatical function of that.

[newman]

I didn’t feel like trying to explain to people that the dyno measures torque and it’s a simple calculation to convert to power.

But again the function to define HP from torque is SET IN STONE.

However, you don’t need the “standard” inside your machine to have it function properly.

A thermocouple uses no mercury yet can accurate to 1/100th of 1%

Also there is a standard for torque, though, and a measurement tool CAN be properly calibrated to read it.

1 Foot-lb is the amount of moment that one pound will generate on one foot of length, where the load is perfectly perpendicular to the ground.

And the POUND has a STANDARD as well:

@wiki

A standardized value for acceleration due to gravity was therefore needed. Today, in accordance with the General Conference on Weights and Measures, standard gravity is usually taken to be 9.80665 m/s² (approximately 32.17405 ft/s²)[2][3] but other values have been used, including 32.16 ft/s² (approximately 9.80237 m/s²).[4]

From the acceleration of the standard gravitational field and the international avoirdupois pound, we arrive at the following definition:[5]

1 pound-force  	≡ 0.45359237 kg × 9.80665 m/s2
	= 4.4482216152605 N (exactly)
	= 32.17405 lbm·ft/s2

[LZ1]

[MOBOOST4U]

@Nikuk

The dynomometer is the termometer here… but there is NO STANDARD (mercury) in a dyno. Whereas dynojet uses an inertial load; mustang uses a eddy current; dynapack uses a brake.

Dumb noob question, but which one is the most “accurate” then? Does anyone really know or is it an implied answer?

[Nikuk]

@newman

Exactly. I didn’t feel like trying to explain to people that the dyno measures torque and it’s a simple calculation to convert to power.

But again the function to define HP from torque is SET IN STONE.

I didnt read any of the first 3 pages. Sorry if I’m repeating. The "Which dyno does what " argument is COMPLETELY FLAWED because each of the three of them measure in different ways.

[Nikuk]

@MOBOOST4U

Dumb noob question, but which one is the most “accurate” then? Does anyone really know or is it an implied answer?

See post above this.

[MOBOOST4U]

@Nikuk

See post above this.

I get that but which one is measuring the “right way” (or at least the closest to it)? Does anybody know?

[newman]

@Nikuk

I didnt read any of the first 3 pages. Sorry if I’m repeating. The "Which dyno does what " argument is COMPLETELY FLAWED because each of the three of them measure in different ways.

Disagree. There is a CORRECT value for torque. It exists.

I can measure temperature a few different ways, and they are all producing the same number, and the same unit.

Just because you’re measuring different ways doesn’t mean that you SHOULDN’T ARRIVE AT THE SAME ANSWER.

[Nikuk]

Wait, there is a “correct value for TORQUE”… No shit, really? Fucking blow my mind.

Whoever is measuring torque with the most accurate means is the best dyno.

To my knowledge there has been no independant unified lab test done which specifies which of the three type is most accurate, and its safe to say the the proprietors aren’t gonna release the specifics of the hardware, let alone the INTERPRETATION software.

Therefore, the argument (of which method is most accurate) is invalid - because we do not know the specifics of the method.

[Nikuk]

If you assume one tool is accurate, then the other two are deemed inaccurate by default.

However you can not rule which tool is accurate without comparing it to a KNOWN accurate tool to begin with.

Has anyone done this?

[newman]

An electric motor would probably get you very close…

[Nikuk]

@newman

An electric motor would probably get you very close…

I oughta fucking kill you. I’m out.

[MOBOOST4U]

@Nikuk

Therefore, the argument (of which method is most accurate) is invalid - because we do not know the specifics of the method.

Well, “invalid” is a bit of a stretch.

Any independent company with the right money and the right knowledge could crack it, but obviously nobody cares that much nor would they have any rational motivation to do it, so we the public will never know.

I guess its just a little upsetting that 2 out of every 3 people who have put their car on a dyno is boasting an inaccurate number but then again, im just being a baby here.

[newman]

Haha. My point stands. At least one dyno is wrong.

[MOBOOST4U]

@newman

Haha. My point stands. At least one dyno is wrong.

Haha, just to be a smartass… technically all three could be wrong. One is just, well… wronger.

[MrSmith]

No you and nikuk made my point for me. You cannot say which dyno is right and which is wrong. See reasons above. Its just a number with whp attached to it. It doesnt mean shit.
I win.

[newman]

no.

still wrong.