The Natives Are Restless... Indians & Taxes

[theblue]

^^
this

[Carnut]

@JayS

Subtract out all your self righteousness about Native American history and this statement is what it boils down to. Nothing the state is trying to do infringes on this treaty or what they want to do with their land. They still get a huge number cigarettes to sell tax free, on the reservation, to the people of their nation. What the state is not longer going to allow is people who are not residents of the native nations to continue purchasing cigarettes there to bring back to the United States where such purchases are taxed. You can’t go any other country, buy stuff, and bring it back to the US without paying duty so why should this be any different? Ideally there would be border crossing checkpoints on every road going out of the reservation. Every person leaving the reservation would be subject to US border patrol inspection and assessed duty on purchases made outside of the United States. Logically this is an expensive proposition that neither side wants do to the restrictions on day to day mobility so the state has worked for years to get the various tribes to collect the tax for non-resident sales. The tribes have refused so the state has decided to tax the cigarettes at a wholesale level before they ever reach native land, making a more than generous exemption for tax free sales to residents of the native nations.

Duty free?

Motocross, Not opinionated. The comparison was valid. It’s the same thing. If that’s how you feel that’s fine which is why I said remember that when it happens to you.

There is no self righteousness about it. It’s how I feel about it. I wasn’t being smug about it I was simply trying to point out the other side of the coin. No one in this thread, or others like it tend to look at things from both sides. The normal progression of these threads is one person makes a comment and then it’s game on from there, everyone jumps on and adds to the same comment while not stopping to think about the other side of things. That’s all.

[16vCorvette]

The smoke shops on the reservation have been able to operate for years without taxing people that don’t live on the reservation. Its funny that people conveniently label Native Americans as lazy, alcoholics but its the business orientated people that are exploiting these tax rules. Same thing for the groups that run casinos.

So since everybody is labeling paying taxes on the reservation as the right thing to do, I’m assuming that all of you have paid your parking/speeding tickets, taxes, registered the animals in your house and paid the correct amount that you paid for on a car with the DMV instead of putting a much smaller amount so you didn’t have to pay as much in taxes. You all probably legally own the MP3’s, movies and video games in your house. And its not like governments (city, county, state, etc) mismanage money whatsoever and they are grasping for more. Money collected from the lottery was supposed to go into schools.

Hell, I just received a renewal request from the NYS DMV to renew my license. I haven’t had a NYS license in 3+ years. NYS would gladly accept my renewal.

[burnt_toast]

@16vCorvette

The smoke shops on the reservation have been able to operate for years without taxing people that don’t live on the reservation. Its funny that people conveniently label Native Americans as lazy, alcoholics but its the business orientated people that are exploiting these tax rules. Same thing for the groups that run casinos.

So since everybody is labeling paying taxes on the reservation as the right thing to do, I’m assuming that all of you have paid your parking/speeding tickets, taxes, registered the animals in your house and paid the correct amount that you paid for on a car with the DMV instead of putting a much smaller amount so you didn’t have to pay as much in taxes. You all probably legally own the MP3’s, movies and video games in your house. And its not like governments (city, county, state, etc) mismanage money whatsoever and they are grasping for more. Money collected from the lottery was supposed to go into schools.

Hell, I just received a renewal request from the NYS DMV to renew my license. I haven’t had a NYS license in 3+ years. NYS would gladly accept my renewal.

16vCorvette, Take a step back and read this:

@JayS

Subtract out all your self righteousness about Native American history and this statement is what it boils down to. Nothing the state is trying to do infringes on this treaty or what they want to do with their land. They still get a huge number cigarettes to sell tax free, on the reservation, to the people of their nation. What the state is not longer going to allow is people who are not residents of the native nations to continue purchasing cigarettes there to bring back to the United States where such purchases are taxed. You can’t go any other country, buy stuff, and bring it back to the US without paying duty so why should this be any different? Ideally there would be border crossing checkpoints on every road going out of the reservation. Every person leaving the reservation would be subject to US border patrol inspection and assessed duty on purchases made outside of the United States. Logically this is an expensive proposition that neither side wants do to the restrictions on day to day mobility so the state has worked for years to get the various tribes to collect the tax for non-resident sales. The tribes have refused so the state has decided to tax the cigarettes at a wholesale level before they ever reach native land, making a more than generous exemption for tax free sales to residents of the native nations.

…and now you hopefully understand how your point is irrelevant. Right and wrong have no place here. It is how it is with every other nation/country, it just hasn’t been on the reservations and now will be. It has nothing to do with mp3’s or video games.

[JayS]

Honestly, if I were governor I’d have the State Police start making random stops of cars leaving the rez and when you see cartoons of cigarettes in plain sight without tax stamps arrest people for smuggling. If you’re stuck trying to go after the dealers, go after the buyers. Impound a few cars and a lot of people would think twice about buying untaxed cigs.

[RobHimself]

I see no need protecting the maybe 5 people that benefit from the smoke shops or gas stations. No one working there is making a lot of money.

[Spam16v]

@RobHimself

I see no need protecting the maybe 5 people that benefit from the smoke shops or gas stations. No one working there is making a lot of money.

another good point

[Jack]

I personally know/relation to the owner of one of the smoke shops, they are millionaires, and their kids are too. I made a lot of money working there… a lot.

[Spam16v]

@Carnut

I don’t smoke and never have.

To me it’s principle. Our ancestors came to a land that was already spoken for but as per usual they looked upon anything other than themselves as subhuman. So for a while, they murdered, killed and diseased them off. That happened extensively in South America. Here in North America with big initiative to push west all the way to the other coast we had one problem. All the people that lived in between that weren’t white. So after forcing them off their land, by continuing a plan of murder rape and torture, some tribes fought. After bloody demorilizing conflicts, much retailiation from some tribes and political pressure our federal government thought it might be better to at least try to negotiate. By this time many if not all the tribes and clans knew what was coming. Many already being decimated the strength in numbers had diminished. So, either move or be slaughtered. The idea of moving was the less dangerous of the two.

So after all of that our federal government entered into a treaty with their tribes. One which shouldn’t be broken when it’s convenient. It’s their land, they do what they want with it.

Native Americans have the shortest life expectancy of any non-white group in this nation. As low as 58 for men in some areas of the country. High baby mortality rates, suicide rates from depression and heart disease are leading causes. Many contributing factors based on poverty, drugs and alcohol. Poor health and nutrition due to lack of income. Drugs and alcohol to numb the pain I guess. When you place displaced people in an area and give them imaginary borders you inevitably create a ghetto like environment. The same results have been seen in tent cities, refugee camps and slums in third world nations.

So, if we have here a tribe that is doing something to be successful and bettering its people as a whole, why do we step in and try to interfere with that. Let them be. We’ve helped them enough.

I understand what you’re talking about. But my point was against our society as a whole, you wouldn’t hear shit if it didn’t involve their (non-indian’s) smokes. If they were trying to tax them selling something completely unrelated like water heaters for example, no one on our side would stand up or care b/c people aren’t weak minded enough to be addicted to water heaters where in this case they are addicted to smoking cigarettes.

[JayS]

Bump

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/new_york/NY-court-allows-Indian-cigarette-tax

State wins a big one in court today.

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

GET READY FOR BURNING TIRES!

[Jack]

Who wants to go run over some burning tires with me? I’m looking forward to the hot pursuit via horseback.

[theblue]

looks like MPD has some more competition for tire destruction in WNY.

[08GT500]

OHNOES!

[Motocrossx23]

Here’s my care face:

careface.jpg

Seriously though, let them burn tires. I’m gonna call them on the fact that they are destroying their “homeland” by putting toxins in our air.

[ultradriver10000]

Have the Indians actually done anything yet? Because I really want them too.

[Joe]

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

I heard this specific ruling does not affect the local Natives. Don’t know, just sayin.

[Spam16v]

@ultradriver10000

Have the Indians actually done anything yet? Because I really want them too.

still too early for some of them to wake up and realize what’s happened.

[JayS]

@Blue Eyed Devil

I heard this specific ruling does not affect the local Natives. Don’t know, just sayin.

It doesn’t because the federal court judge still has an injunction against the state because a decision hasn’t come down from that court yet. The state court ruling though says the state has met it’s burden for having a system in place that allows non-natives to be taxed while allowing for natives to still buy cigs on reservation tax free.