Seneca's at it again.....

http://www.buffalonews.com/101/story/57227.html

CATTARAUGUS INDIAN RESERVATION … A day after declaring that the Thruway was trespassing through Indian land, Seneca President Maurice John Sr. upped the ante today, saying the Seneca Nation also is taking a hard look at other roads and utility lines that cut through its territories.
“It’s only the beginning,” John told The Buffalo News following a press conference on the reservation this morning.

John insisted that the trespassing allegation is a “land issue” and in no way tied to the escalating tobacco wars that have been brewing between the Nation and Albany.
But he also sought to strike a softer tone today, saying that he believes Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer is a “good” and “honorable” man and that the governor’s office had agreed to meet with the Senecas on neutral territory.
John said his nation wants some sort of annual payment for allowing the Thruway to pass through the Cattaraugus reservation.
On Wednesday, leaders would not say if the tribe will seek to shut down the road where it cuts through the reservation. John was adamant that he does not support any violent protest and urged the Seneca people to trust in the tribal council’s wisdom.
The tribal council had voted over the weekend to rescind a 1954 easement that turned over four miles totaling about 300 acres to the Thruway.
The action comes as the Spitzer administration is determining how it intends to collect taxes on the sale of tobacco and gasoline products sold by more than 100 Seneca retailers. It also comes several years after the Senecas lost a major federal court case in which they sought to have the 1954 arrangement declared void.
The surprising twist to a long-simmering dispute was revealed in a letter Wednesday from John to Spitzer. The Seneca leader said the tribal council had withdrawn the 1954 approval for the right-of-way easement near Brant and was calling for negotiations with the state to resolve the dispute.
“Until such time as the matter is resolved, the nation considers the continued use of the Thruway without nation permission as an ongoing act of trespass,” John said in his letter to Spitzer.
The Seneca president and other tribal officials declined to comment further. Thruway officials could not be reached to comment Wednesday evening. A few hours after the Senecas released their statement, a State Police spokesman said he had heard of no trouble along the stretch of Thruway that goes through the Seneca Reservation.
Wednesday evening, the Spitzer administration said Seneca officials had given the state no indication they would seek to shut down the four-mile portion of the Thruway. Other than that, the administration was doing nothing to ratchet up tensions.
“The Senecas sued over the matter in 1999 and lost the case,” said Darren Dopp, a Spitzer spokesman. He declined to comment further.
Ironically, it was Spitzer, the attorney general at the time, who defended the state in a suit brought nearly 10 years ago by the Senecas seeking to get the 1954 agreement declared invalid because the federal government never approved the deal … which the Senecas insisted was required under a treaty with President George Washington dating back from the 1790s.
In 1954, the state paid individual Senecas and the nation about $175,000 for the 300 acres of land that the Thruway crosses.
The Senecas on Wednesday pointed to a 1999 decision by U.S. Magistrate Judge Carol Heckman, who agreed with the Seneca Nation that the secretary of the interior had not complied in 1954 with the right-of-way agreement. But the Senecas lost the broader legal case involving the right of way; in 2004, a three-judge federal appeals court unanimously affirmed a lower appeals court decision rejecting
not only the Senecas’ Thruway complaint but its land claims to Grand Island and more than 40 other islands in the Niagara River.
The Seneca Council on Saturday voted unanimously to rescind the Sept. 18, 1954, resolution granting the state access through its lands for the Thruway’s construction. The ruling council said a process should begin for “developing options for obtaining payment from the state and ongoing illegal possession and use of nation lands upon which the Thruway is constructed.”
While the Seneca Nation on Wednesday did not directly state that its Thruway claim is directly tied to the tobacco tax dispute, the timing of its actions comes as top Spitzer aides are devising ways to begin collecting the taxes.
Spitzer made it a campaign pledge to end more than a decade of disputes and begin collecting the excise and sales taxes on cigarette and gasoline products sold by Indian retailers to non-Indians. His new state budget counts on $200 million coming in this year from the new collections.
The governor has not yet said precisely how the state will collect the taxes, but Spitzer administration officials have floated the notion of being open to some kind of revenue-sharing deals with the tribes, in which the Indians would keep a portion of the taxes collected.
Seneca retailers, the kings of the nation’s Indian tax-free tobacco trade, would have little incentive to impose the state taxes, even in a revenue-sharing deal, because such an arrangement would end the current price advantage its tobacco dealers maintain over non-Indian retailers who must charge taxes.
There also has been speculation that some Senecas may be interested in a resolution of the tax issue with the state in return for a deal giving them access to a new casino in the tourist area of the Catskills.
The Thruway has been a focal point of disputes between the state and Senecas for years.
In 1997, the last time the state tried to collect the taxes, violent confrontations occurred between Seneca protesters and state troopers in a series of clashes that at one point shut a 30-mile stretch of the Thruway for 24 hours. In 1992, during another tax dispute, burning tires also closed part of the Thruway

i’m so sick of this crap, IBthruwaytirefires

They should pay taxes like everyone else

None the less this should be interesting…
I like how the hiring works at Seneca Niagara Casino. I think its discrimination and my rights have been violated but i dont burn fucking tires in front of it.

this will never stop… we were talking about this at work this morning… we should just leave them alone. we appreciate, or most of us do, their cheap gas and cigs…

i think we should give them everything they want.
they don’t like our utilities “trespassing” through their land? Fine, remove them and let them find their own electric,gas,sewage,and water
they want grand island back? fine, relocate everyone off it and turn it back to them but remove all existing features, including bridges
they want to start charging to use the section of thruway that cuts through their land? fine, we’ll put up toll booths for roads entering into U.S. ground from reservation lands

[quote=“Mrs. Karus,post:4,topic:27909"”]

this will never stop… we were talking about this at work this morning… we should just leave them alone. we appreciate, or most of us do, their cheap gas and cigs…

[/quote]

Wrong. One of Spitzer’s big campaign promises was he was going to enforce the tax laws, which state that sales to non-natives can and should be taxed. Spitzer was elected, overwhelmingly.

Hopefully we’ll see the national guard get involved and put them in their place.

[quote=“jrod0187,post:3,topic:27909"”]

None the less this should be interesting…
I like how the hiring works at Seneca Niagara Casino. I think its discrimination and my rights have been violated but i dont burn fucking tires in front of it.

[/quote]

+1

[quote=“JayS,post:6,topic:27909"”]

Hopefully we’ll see the national guard get involved and put them in their place.

[/quote]

:headbang: we could only hope

[quote=“JayS,post:6,topic:27909"”]

Hopefully we’ll see the national guard get involved and put them in their place.

[/quote]

Agreed. + 101010

The whole concept of Indian Res’s being independent nations is fucked. If we enforce it they’re fucked, if we don’t then we get screwed. The fundamentals were wrong in the beginning. “We’re going to sort of conquer you, but we feel bad about it so we’re going to let you keep .000001% of your home and call it your own little nation inside ours.” So now hundreds of years later we’re still having a power struggle.

So what are the options:

  1. Honor Indian Treaties, meaning treat them as a seperate nation. Tax their imports. No police, school, medicine, utilities from us, etc.
  2. Break Indian Treaties, treating them as part of the US and assimilating them into our country. No more untaxed imports, taxing their income and land, giving them utilities & police etc.
  3. Leave things be, screwing ourselves out of tax money and tax-paid services but letting them have their cake and eat it too.

All the options suck. As much as I hate advocating anything that goes against principle, I’m just not sure if options 1 or 2 are worth it vs option 3. Who knows, maybe the Seneca’s won’t even let 3 be an option. :gotme:

[quote=“BikerFry,post:10,topic:27909"”]

“We’re going to sort of conquer you, but we feel bad about it so we’re going to let you keep .000001% of your home and call it your own little nation inside ours.”

[/quote]

i’ve always said the exact same thing, nice to see people agree. They should be thankful they were allowed to create reservations in the first place, not bitch that they don’t have enough.

we beat them down and stole their land once…

It can happen again.

^and gave it back like a bunch of fucking idiots.

i say take down all the power lines and shut off the water going to the res, and close all roads in and out. shoot them when they trespass on NY/US soil.
let them live by fire light and send smoke signals

[quote=“RedDawg,post:11,topic:27909"”]

i’ve always said the exact same thing, nice to see people agree. They should be thankful they were allowed to create reservations in the first place, not bitch that they don’t have enough.

[/quote]

Yep. It’s not that I don’t sympathize with the concept of their ancestors having lost their home, it’s just that the situation we’ve created of them being “allowed” to still have some land “independent” of the country that the conquerers created is not natural and of course will always create nothing but conflict.

[quote=“RedDawg,post:5,topic:27909"”]

i think we should give them everything they want.
they don’t like our utilities “trespassing” through their land? Fine, remove them and let them find their own electric,gas,sewage,and water
they want grand island back? fine, relocate everyone off it and turn it back to them but remove all existing features, including bridges
they want to start charging to use the section of thruway that cuts through their land? fine, we’ll put up toll booths for roads entering into U.S. ground from reservation lands

[/quote]

redawg for president!

Give them a box of beads and beaver pelts… It worked once.

i don’t know how many of you have ever had to spend a lot of time on a reservation other than getting gas/cigs but they’re the biggest assholes to “outsiders”

[quote=“RobHimself,post:16,topic:27909"”]

Give them a box of beads and beaver pelts… It worked once.

[/quote]

lol

[quote=“RobHimself,post:16,topic:27909"”]

Give them a box of beads and beaver pelts… It worked once.

[/quote]

OMG LOL

I really wish that guy who has assholish things to say would stop posting under my name!