PM sent.
Tru, but given the population growth also, I don’t think you could rule out colonization.
colonization where???
i don’t follow your logic
Have you completely lost your mind?
all i’m saying is that if we see a major military conflict the size of WWII, our country will miss not having an manufacturing arm.
toyota will handle that.
so whats your proposed solution?
destroy the unions. hire designers that arent 60yr old men without a clue.
Scrap half of the cars they have now in favor of less shitty replacements.
50% price reduction on everything.
read as follow in hondas foot steps.
I don’t have one. Too complicated and I don’t have the time or patience to propose one, but the UAW is certainly at the front of it. I mentioned a few points that would make a difference in another thread. I’ll post it if I can find it.
Sounds proffitable. :bloated:
Lets not let CAFE Off the hook either. One of the reasons GM and Ford can make $ over seas and not here. All car companies are forced to produce cars that aren’t necessarily popular or proffitable.
Everyone knows the trucks that are profitabel for Ford and GM, the only reason they even make cars like the Focus and Cobalt are because of CAFE, I bet you that Ford and GM lose a lot more money trying to pump shitty cars like those instead of building profitable pickups and SUV. I say, let the market dictate what vehicles particular manufactures can sell to the public.
If Toyota is profitable making Priuses and GM is profitable making Tahoes and Pickups let them make what the market will bear and what makes the companes $. Rather than force them to throw thoushands of econoboxes into the market at a loss to meet a CAFE standard.
Unemployment rate includes discouraged workers, not people who don’t want jobs.
Overall I think it will be a disaster and agree with rj has to say about the issue, but how much can be done?
Fuck SUV’s, and trucks that arent used as work horses. The average “joe six pack” doesnt need a full ton pickup jacked 100" that burns 10 gallons a mile with ww2 spot lights as headlights.
With that said…
GM and Ford are profitable overseas because they sell the (as refferd to by you) shitty cars such as the Focus, Mondeo/Contour. As far as GM is concerned a lot of their lineup comes out in Renault trim(I dare you to try and prove me wrong on that). Cleo, Meganne, and a bunch of other ones that I cant remember the names of or even care to research at the moment. At worse the cars have 90% GM built and assembled parts. Oh ya also one more thing. The people that build them do not make the same as most doctors. But they do live well.
Also Manufacturers such as Toyota and Honda tend to change their lineup from time to time. Not always going for a major redesign of a chassis but at least reworking it so that it is more appealing to the masses.
GM for example has had the same shit platforms for decades. One other thing though. Be glad that CAFE is there.
As far as people loosing their jobs is concerned. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Ok allow me to explain. People will loose their jobs but not the massive droves you speak of. PLants will be bought out , suppliers will sell their wares to other manufacturers(Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, whatever) Will there be layoffs? Sure, but i believe the jobs will regenerate within 2 years, at most.
Forgive me also if I dont loose sleep over national security (if the automakers fail that is). Russia has officialy been bankrupt for how long now? Ya I dont see them getting invaded any time soon.
Ugh it’s too early for this crap. ill be back on later to add and revise my statement.
manufacturing is done in the US regardless…Its just a matter of time…
It would be profitable because they would be paying less to build them.
If the cost to build them goes down 50% the cost of the vehicle goes down 50% but the sales go up 200% you make alot more money.
The majority of americans would buy americas little cars if they cost the same as the competition. To be totaly honest I wouldnt even go look at a cavy (cobalt) knowing I could get a fit for half the price and If I wanted a sporty fuel efficient car. the entire country thinks the same way.
They should find a way to work into the public system a method of giving people a car for retirement from a government job or something as part of their package. Stop with this top down shit and push from the consumer side.
Part of your retirement, the government will give you a new car. Help move the existing stock and put money back into the businesses.
geico is hiring.
:roflpicard:
Just Karter with his usual crock of shit. Ignored.
Econoboxes are Econoboxes. If you want to compare apples to apples, compare the cobalt pricewise to a Civic and a Fit to an Aveo.
But for those of you who talk about lack of redesigns or new platforms, what exactly would you call the G8, Camaro, CTS (both regular and V), Malibu, Acadia/Traverse/Outlook, Sky Redline/Solstice GXP, etc? I mean, I know magazines call them cars of the year and comparison test winners, but you can call them what you like.
The point is, GM is making some really good stuff right now, despite all of the above limitations. And that’s not even including their bread and butter market. They’re having some cash flow problems lagging from the current mess. After all we’ve done for the financials, we need to help them out with a loan. The government would have priority creditor status and would get paid back either way, but in the short term they need the help to weather the storm.
We have a pretty good model of what will happen.
Look at great Britain when they tried bailing out their car industry.
They waisted tones of money and the companies eventually went under anyway.
I think the reality of not getting a bailout will be somewhere between what the two sides are predicting.
It won’t be the total chaos RJ is predicting because those numbers that are being put out by the auto industry ignore the simple fact that GM/Ford/Chrysler going out of business will not change the overall DEMAND for cars that much. People will still need cars, so business will increase for the remaining manufactures. In case you haven’t noticed, a lot of “foreign” cars are produced right here on US soil as opposed to your Mexican built “domestic” autos. As that demand goes up at Honda/Toyota/Mazda et al their existing workforce will not be able to meet demand and who better to hire than an experienced GM/Ford/Chrysler employee. They won’t get the same old contracts that were destroying their old employers though.
It won’t be as painless as the anti-bailout crew is saying either though. Health care benefits for retirees will be a huge issue. I find it funny and worrying at the same time that the very people who elected a president telling us Obamacare would take care of all our health care needs are saying that retirees losing their UAW health care is a major reason to support the bailout. But anyway… there will be costs to the taxpayer one way or another to continue coverage for these retirees and their government guaranteed pension plans.
There will be additional pain as the consolidation of demand across fewer producers leads to cost savings in manufacturing. They’ll still need X number of workers to build Y number of cars, but with less makes/models/assembly lines/factories you need far less managers. You still need X number of components like radio and tires, but again, you have less different companies involved which means more assembly people and less managers and office support type positions. Unfortunately fat probably needs to be cut here.
One thing I really don’t buy is the anti-bailout claim that they should just go into chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and that will allow them to shed debt and reorganize and everything will be great. I really doubt many people will be willing to buy a car from a manufacturer in bankruptcy. If GM files chapter 11 I doubt they will ever survive it.
Bottom line, I’m leaning my support toward some sort of bailout but with extremely strict terms. Things I would have to see to support a bailout of GM:
- Major union concessions
- Guarantees that the money would go toward operating expenses that drive the business (R&D, quality control, better materials etc).
- Guarantees that the money would not go to stupid ideas like buying Chrysler. GM needs less shitty vehicles and brands, not more.
- A well laid out business plan, reviewed by an independent financial review board, showing GM at least has a chance of recovery and eventual payback of this bailout money.
With out those 4 conditions, let them go under. It’s better to have some pain now and start a recovery than continue dumping money into a doomed company.