Well... together, Running... but not driving... yet.

Builds
1

Well, After pulling the quickest build from scratch in history, and running into a number of absolute BULLSHIT fuck-ups along the way in getting ready to build it (only to be topped off by a slew of last minute fuck-ups as well), its running, and together. Driving… well, thats another story as of this moment. Trying to get the car together for VOI9, which I have now missed, I ran through a number of let-downs and mistakes on the part of my suppliers that killed my chances. Some of these things, like being sent Low-Impedance injectors rather than Peak and Hold injectors, 2 driver side hood hinges misbagged as one of each, and a flywheel that is just plain too light even though it is “claimed” to work fine, my chances of making it in time were squashed. (and beofre someone calls it, yes, P&H injectors are low impedance too, but 2.4 ohms VS 4.8 on a P&H Driver is a BIG difference in response time)

Right now, everything is ironed out other than the tuning and flywheel weight issue. Unfortunately, I am 8-12 weeks out for a custom flywheel from Tilton. I figure I will use the time between now and then to ATTEMPT to get the car running with the excessively light flywheel, as if I can pull that off, it should run like a dream with a heavier, more streetable flywheel. On a side note, the reaon the flywheel wont work is that it was designed on a Comp Coupe using a Motec engine management system, and the street PCM cant respond quick enough when at idle speeds to make the car driveable on the street- I was not informed of this fact until a few days ago. Thanks Tilton…

When putting it together, i revised many of the attributes of the engine and its parts, and added back many of the things that other tuners have removed because of the difficulty in adapting them to work with aftermarket components.

Incomplete list of mods to the engine:

-2006 block
-fully studded with ARP-2000 studs
-Billet 4340 Caps w/custom machining to allow crank scraper to be reattached
-Custom Carrillo Rods with FPO
-Custom CP Pistons
-Custom Cam
-custom adjustable timing set for Gen-3 Engine
-Modified Comp Coupe Oiling System to eliminate its design flaws
-Full Floating .990 pins
-Full Coating Set
-Clevite H-Series Triarmor Bearings
-Custom Axle-less composite roller lifters
-Double-Keyed ATI Damper
-Fully Hand Ported heads to maximum flow… done by the “Best” in the Viper world
-Ferrea Super Alloy Valves
-Titanium Retainers
-Super-7 Billet Locks
-Isky Springs
-Cometic Gaskets
-Jesel Mohawk Rockers
-Ported, Extrude-Honed, and Powdercoated Manifold and T-Body
-Custom P&H Fuel System capable of 1500HP @ Static 55 PSI Rail, or 2000HP w/Boost Referencing
-Tilton 3-Plate Carbon/Carbon Clutch, Flywheel and HRB
-Custom Urethane Engine Mounts with Internal Locks
-Custom EMS with selectable input logging

Getting there slowly but surely… accomplished a LOT over the last 4 weeks, with a lot more to come this winter.

2

wow :tup:

3

more pics…

4

Dan… huge props for sticking with it bro. Youve come a looooong way. :tup: Im glad you didnt kill anyone along the way, a few times I thought for sure I would read about you in the newspaper :lol: I really need to come check this shit out one day but I am so owned with school and work right now ugh. But everything looks great in the pics and I just want to say I hate you and your stupid white viper :smiley: Atleast come springtime you know youll be ready to roll once you get the few last lingering issues resolved. :tup: Im gonna buy you a giant beer once its all done and then steal your keys when youre wasted :tup:

5

Last Pics…

6

goddamn is that sweet… i mean NA that motor has to be putting out serious power and you’ve yet to install the turbo’s yet right?

i’m curious to know that if AMS Performance can make 1000hp evo’s on a 2.x 4cyl with a HUGECILLO turbo on it. then what kind of power do you think you could produce if you followed the import formula for huge power… fully built everything in the block (as i see you already have) then stuffing the largest turbo(s) you can possibly fit under the hood.

furthermore i think it’d be beneficial in your case to have alot of lag because your motor already outputs house foundation pulling torque so it seems like having properly sized turbos that spooled instantly would just be too insane and probably never grip.
so i’m thinking the old import adage of “Lag for the traction, top end for the action” would apply nicely like peak power comes after your already moving instead of being fully spooled at like 2500rpm and liquifying the tires immediatly…i mean regardless of what rpm it spools by tire roasting will happen with the kind of power level your working with… i just think it’d be easier to drive with an almost peaky powerband…

To be honest with the kind of displacement and amount cylinders your working with is there even turbo’s out there big enough for your car that wouldn’t fully spool till like 4800rpm? if so, don’t you think that power output would be on the ludicrous side of the spectrum, almost unnessary power levels?

i just know that when it comes to domestics they are all about motors with a broad flat torque curve. so i’m curious to see what a domestic with already prodigous HP/TQ output would do if it were to be built like high hp level imports… like a really peaky powerband with alot of top end instead of low-end… i mean maybe it’s not your cup of tea or the most efficient, i’m just saying i’ve never really seen a huge displacement 10 cylinder with oversized turbo power would do. figure 2 liters and 4cyls can make 1000hp with a big enough turbo… so wouldn’t something with 4x the displacement and 2.5x the cylinders with an oversized turbos be capable of outputting like 3,000hp?

7

When you are dealing with big Vs small engines, the rules change a bit. as the size of the engine increases, is efficiency decreases, and its RPM capability decreases unless you are using some extremey exotic and/or expensive materials. (read; it needs to make more torque at a lower RPM to net the same horsepower as the small engines). Its a little complicated, but in reality, on the street, the street itself limits the power more than the car and engine combo do…you can only put down so much with a given platform. However, the BIG deal with Big Vs Small disregarding ability to put down power is how well a certain platform can cope with a certain power level for street use. For example, a 2.X liter engine will surely have a much shorter life span and more insane requirements for maintenance and fuel at 1000HP than a 8.X liter engine making the same power level. I guess what I am saying is that following the same rules, the ability of the engine will not be linear to its size, though its capabilities at the same levels will indeed be higher. There are Viper blocks making in excess of 2000 HP at around 20 PSI if thats what you are getting at, and you dont really have to do magic tricks to get them to live at those levels.

Your questions about turbo sizing are actually questions I myself am battling with now. Yes, a larger turbo with a little lag WILL help in the traction area, but good computers can take over the same duty by limiting boost in certain gears, even when using a properly sized “hit you in the back with a hammer” turbocharger. The question in my case is more towards mountability and location. The computers to control them are peanuts compared to the rest of the project, so I am more interested in making something that follows my requirement for a “could have come out of the factory this way” package. Front mount setups are out of the question for me, unless I can find a way to pipe it that meets MY standards… and thats doubtful without doing some frame work. Realistically, even the smallest turbos used on Vipers will be in the 1000+ HP range, so regardless, there will be no lack of power, no matter what configuration I end up with. I am not out looking to make 3000HP, its useless… now, building the engine to handle that, and running less so it lasts forever- thats something I am interested in.

8

:tup:

From VR4s to this…

9

Rumor has it next hes going into the honda civic market :snky: :lol:

10

absolutely awesome man :tup: it must finally feel good to be this far along with your project. i can’t wait to see you out and actually driving it when next year comes around. huge props!!!

11

ah, thank you for clarifying that. it just interested me alot considering your prior background was in turbo imports. i was excited at the possibilty of you building something i’ve always wondered about. (that being what if someone built a viper block using the same formula as the highest level imports)

i know cars like the AMS Evo probably would only stay together for like 10 runs, and that’s ok for a shop car because it’s alot cheaper for a purveyor of parts to rebuild a motor, especially something like the 4G63. on top of that it’s ALOT cheaper to destroy one of those blocks than a viper block.

also you gotta figure something like the viper block has to be incredibly strong compared to that of a mitsu 4 cyl. obviously mitsu engineers never intended for those blocks to be pushed that far… however you gotta figure if that motor can stay alive even for a few runs, then starting with a block that was designed from the factory for 500hp/tq has got to be able to handle insane amounts of power and still stay together.

you mentioned that 2000hp has been achieved on 20psi… now bear with me i don’t know much from the viper community… but following the same train of thought… a block that was designed from the factory for 300hp and 20 psi has been built to handle 40+ psi and made more than triple the factory HP with double the boost. so you gotta wonder what would happen if were to use a pair of like GT40R’s (that’s the turbo that Big Al of the evo community used to push 43 psi) and shove 40+ psi into the viper block. i’d bet it’d be one of the highest hp cars on the street in the world. mind you i’m not factoring in the other myriad of problems that would come with it that you previously mentioned such as the platform itself handling it, power getting to the ground shit like that.

i’m just fantasizing about it, mainly because i don’t think anyone has ever really tried something like that, most likely because they don’t have the funds, don’t want to deal with how much custom work would be needed, and on top of that it’d probably be so much power that it’d be a useless uber-expensive tire melting machine. i’ve just always wanted to see what would be possible.

now i know you want something that can stay together and operate as though it were factory. i’m a firm believer in turbocharging as hands down thee best way to make power, and with proper sizing and tuning, drivability can be maintained and almost as good as stock or in some cases even better, and increasing gas mileage in some situations. when compared to fully built NA motors which are crap on the street, either they fall flat on their face for the first few thousand RPM and or have terrible gas mileage and pretty much are only good for driving at WOT.

now if your goals are to build the highest hp street car that will stay together and drive as good as stock or better. then i think you got the right formula, built block and turbo’s. i’d love to see your car with twin HKS T51R kai’s on it. those are some of the most advanced turbo’s out there that can produce HUGE power and are designed mainly for larger displacement jap motors (ironically their idea of big displacement is a 3 liter 6) and spool really fast for it’s size especially when compared to a similar sized turbo from 5-6 years ago… it has a full ball bearing center section and is water cooled. it’s also really versatile too, pro drift cars use that turbo, as well as some of thee most powerful single turbo drag skylines and supras. considering the shear size of your motor i’d be willing to bet it’d be really really easy to spool a pair of those and i’d bet you’d maintain excellent driveability.

either way i’m really excited in general to see how your car turns out. i’d just like to see someone utilize the best in japanese turbo products on a huge displacement domestic block mainly because people who are domestic fans are import haters or only use specialty american company products… anyhow i’m rambling on. but continue with updates and your thoughts please!

12

Awesome man, itll pay off when next year comes along

13

man can that engine be any sexier

14

thats nice! looks good