Yeah I hear that… Just bought a shiteload of bushings and other pieces in preparation for the next round of work on this car.
I went with online vendors- Turner, eEuroparts out of CT, BimmerSpecialist, understeer.com, etc…
My wallet is feeling it though!
check out autohausaz, as well as pelican parts. quite a bit cheaper than the above. for performance stuff- bimmerworld> turner
I added to the first page of the thread but for those too lazy to go to that first page…
UPDATED [9/10/2009] Subframe Repair Prep & Light Interior Stuff!
Stages *
Stage Four – Suspension
[8/29/2009]
There are several known issues on this car with respect to the suspension / subframe, 85% of which are a pain to get at because it involves removing bushings!
My plan of attack to address common issues with the 325:
• Replace Rear Trailing Arm Bushing (RTAB) (2 pcs)
• Replace Ball Joints / Bushings in Rear TA (4 pcs total)
• Replace Ball Joint / Bushing in Upper / Lower Control Arm (link to subframe) (2 pcs)
• Replace Subframe Bushings (4 pcs total)
• Replace Front Differential Bushing (1 pc)
• Replace Rear Bearings (both sides)
• Replace Rear Hubs (both sides)
• Replace E-brake Shoes (both sides)
• Weld in Reinforcement Plates for Subframe Mounts
Now, the challenge
This car is my daily (hence the thread title), I don’t have a “beater” or second ride that I can freely use if it’s out of commission. So… This whole thing had to be completed in one day.
This required some advance planning on my part (and late nights in the sauna, er garage). Serious, I lost more weight sweating it out in there than going to the gym or attempting to run/jog/walk around Halfmoon, NY.
WARNING: This is a Mega Update and I am Mega Boring so grab a Mega 5 Hour Energy, Pop a Viagra, Experience a 5 Hour Boner and Read On!!!
I’ve split it into steps (as if that helps people from falling asleep)
Step I: Prepping Da $hite
I figured that having a spare set of all parts would be necessary to prep / clean / check parts and most importantly have the darn bushings removed!
So I picked up:
’95 M3 subframe + Upper & Lower Control Arms + Loaded Trailing Arms
Checked subframe, it looked ok, bushings weren’t even half bad but I already made up my mind to go with Powerflex Polyurethane ones (the purple joints)
To start things off, I disassembled the caliper off the TAs, threw away the crap rotor left on ‘em, and proceeded to pull off the hubs so I could get at the bearing / Ebrake stuff.
Getting ready to pull hub
Ghetto Technique to retain leverage when pulling hub with no way to stop it from turning and you wear cheap New Balance 574s and are laughed at by opposite sex at clubs
More Ghetto Freestyle BizNeSs with Slide Hammer
Finally (!!@#@) Some progress!
This one is simply titled “101 Reasons the wife wants use of the garage back by Fall ‘09”
OK, in the meantime (and many nights sleeping on the couch or living room floor), I hatched up the next plan:
Step 2: Burn Up Credit Card On Mad Pricey Bavarian $hit
Ball Joints / Bushings and I$ht (not including Powerflex stuff)
E brake shoes
Rear Wheel Bearings
All Important Subframe Reinforcement Plates
Call it overkill, but I ended up buying a spare 325i rear axle too because one of the threads seemed FUBAR on the loaded trailing arm I got. I just could not afford to have anything missing that would seriously delay the project.
Basically, I wanted to COMPLETELY AVOID having to remove the axle/hub/collar nut etc on the assembly on my car, so I was building a completely new subframe with pretty much everything in it.
Having said that, the next thing you do is:
Step 3: Put Machine Shop Guy on Speed Dial (as you Bend Over)
In the meantime, I was busy becoming bum chums with the guys at the NAPA Machine Shop on Wolf Rd, seeing as I seemed to be dropping off parts every couple of days.
Basically, they did the bushing removal work and press work for me. One of the hubs from the loaded trailing arm I bought did not cooperate and come out easily so they got that out for me too.
I tried to go my tried but not true El Cheapo Route and buy a used hub from Bimmerforums.com off a pretty reputable seller there but got this in the mail after waiting a week for the damn thing:
Faaaaaaaaaa##@##$k!!
I got a refund eventually but wasted about 8 days waiting for this sad POS posing as a hub.
That $hite irked me to no end, so much so I whipped out the plastic again and dinged my Paypal account for some new hubs:
Man, why do them $hits gotta go UNDER the car, they are like the nicest thing on my vehicle!!
These joints are so pretty, if I had real neck muscles I’d wear one on a chain, like Flavor Flav does with clocks and $#ite…
Anyways, I digress (my specialty, I know).
After a couple of days, NAPA pressed in new bushing/ball joints into the trailing arms and put in the new bearing / snap ring and pressed it with the hub. I ended up with:
Side note: I did take all this stuff to Hunt’s Machine Shop in Schenectady, but after I asked for a quote the guy looked at me like I asked him for his digits at the Blue Oyster Bar… He went on and on about how it could take HOURS to get that hub out and he wouldn’t want to charge me like $300 if it took way longer than I thought.
In the end, I figured he didn’t want the job so I just threw my stuff in the car and left.
Basically, I think he was pricing himself out of it since he didn’t want to touch these ghetto fabulous used parts. Heck, if I had a reputable business, I probably wouldn’t either. But NAPA was all good with it, so they got the work! Hey I understand building engines / precision machining is where the $$$ and props are at but you want business during these times, you gotta do dirty work too ya know?
Soon I had more components disassembled and brought these to a buddy who does some ill sandblasting work. And when I say ill, I mean he was doing blasting prepping salt trucks and stuff for the State, so the following parts were literally a drop in the bucket.
Approximately $160 of press work and a few million particles of abrasive resin later I had:
I also threw in some extra parts to get blasted, such as the 3.38 Limited Slip Diff I picked up off a ’97 M3 and the X Brace I bought from Bimmerforums.com:
Once I had the loaded trailing arms done up with the bearings/hubs, I was pretty much on easy street. Only things left to do to complete the preparation were:
Masking parts for painting, followed by:
Painting new components!! (Yes I eventually did the X Brace too)
Now that everything’s ready it’s time for:
Step 5: MAAD #@@# WeRk, SoN!!
TO BE CONTINUED……
Stage Three – Interior Stuff
[8/1/2009]
I’ve had the car for almost six months now and have purchased seats and cleaned it up a bit. Big wow, I know, but hey it’s hard to juggle other priorities with this stuff.
I finally got around to doing the window regulator / door panel though. Lemme tell you, the regulator is a PITA for two reasons: For one, BMW chose to curse all ’92-’93 E36 owners by integrating the motor / switching mechanism with the damn window regulator module, all to allow “easy one-touch operation”.
Personally, I don’t think any “one-touch operation” is worth $320, but that’s what parts stores wanted for a new unit. Forget that.
Fortunately, Ebay came to the rescue, and after ordering like 2 other regulators that were from a ’94 and ’95 and did not match up with what I needed, I finally wised up and checked realoem.com for the real deal Holyfield parts number.
Anyways, $110 and a esnipe type bid later, I had this:
Come on, would you pay $300+ for this piece of dung?
To make matters worse, BMW decided it would be a stellar move to include four rivets to mount this piece to the door panel. Brilliant.
After much finangling (yes, a technical term), cursing, broken drill bits, and one trip to Lowe’s for some funny looking pliers while I held in a monster dump, I removed all the rivets:
Exhibit A: Proof that Rivets > Cr-Mo drill bits
Note to Boeing: Use BMW’s Rivets in your 787, it should help extend those inspection intervals to like, 53 years!
Exhibit B: What your 325i looks like when parked in Jersey City for 2 hrs (note interior wipes can stuffed inside door panel to hold up the window)
Exhibit C: Funny a$$ pliers that did WORK!
Now I had to deal with a crack in the regulator that I stayed up half the night bidding for. Eff!!
BIG thanks to Wayne for helping a brother out at midnight though and welding it for me!! Little did he know he would be helping with a $hit ton more welding… See next phase: Subframe repair!! Hehe.
Couple of hours later, I managed to align the window with the tracks in the door itself while getting the regulator to move smoothly up and down.
I lost about 310 calories in the damn fitment process and had little energy to take pics, so basically you are left with the finished product, Voila!
you’re fucking nuts archie :lmao :lmao seems like it’s coming along great though! how much total $$ do you have invested in her?
Thanks Ryan… I have dropped at least $800-$900 probably on this subframe job, and I have a bit over $2G invested in suspension / handling parts.
(Then again, I will make some money back when I sell other parts off my car too…)
As you will see later though, it was money well spent!
Hate to be :ninja but watch for the update in a few days, actually finishing out the rest of this part of the car this week…
You fucking cock teasing bastard where the hell are the pics of the subframe mount welding???
and hook me up with your sandblasting boi please. i wouldnt even want to paint those pretty silver parts. But I would.
My sandblast boi?
Yeah, he love you long time…
OK but seriously, he came through for me on the first set of parts but when I was looking for him to do the trailing arms he didn’t reply to my message on his cell, so not sure what happened after that initial hookup…
NAPA ended up blasting the TAs for me. They charged me $15 or $20 for that I believe…
I can contact him again and ask if he is interested in doing more of this work. If you tell me what you need, I can get a quote too.
PMed you about the pics for now.
where are the pics of my horrible ass welding job?
In for jb weld pics
:ohnoes:ohnoes:ohnoes:ohnoes
JB weld would hold up just fine under those conditions.
shut your fucking face, and if you reply to this with your avatar so help me god i will ban you into a bloody pulp.
you KNOW i was going to do that too :lmao :lmao
i love this avatar, it’s just a simple copy and paste away from being a perfectly legitimate response to 33.333% of posts on this forum.
BUMP for Update.
I added to the first page of the thread but for those too lazy to go to that first page…
Step 5: MAAD #@@# WeRk, SoN!! [Updated 9/16/2009]
Time to get busy and install these parts that were just sitting pretty in the garage!!
8:40 AM
I pull into Wayne’s spot in good ol’ D-burg (home of Stewarts and uh, that’s about it for downtown).
Entering Wayne’s World, aka home of D-burg’s Welder Supreme
Wasting no time, our man has the car up on stands and is working exhaust bolts before I can say “yo who jizzed under my rotor?”
An overview of the work area (Caddy motor and auto tranny not going in today- sorry)
Soon the exhaust is off and lower shock bolts are removed. Calipers are removed from the mounting bolts and ziptied away from the rest of the subframe. Wayne removed the driveshaft to diff bolts as well, probably the trickiest part of the job but he zipped through it pretty easily.
We pull back the wheel speed sensors for the ABS and the brake pad sensor on the right side and within about 1.5 hrs of jacking the car up, we are ready to drop the subframe out.
Note: you can’t see it well below, but if you put the jack 1-2 inches behind the BMW symbol on the side of the differential, it’s pretty much the center of mass and allows you to drop the subframe down without it tilting and crushing your body parts.
First the subframe wanted to hang up, so we thought it wasn’t coming down straight. But obviously THIS was causing problems:
ILL a$$ cracking around the passenger side front stud that hangs down and functions as 1 of 4 subframe bolting points.
No WONDER the car was starting to exhibit iffy handling and feel like $hite…
I seriously question why BMW allowed the chassis engineer to use a stud bolt design that acts as a cantilever beam that is basically cyclically stressed over the life of the car.
This type of ill shenanigan deserves a straight through facepalm, just the like the stud bolt causing tearing through the chassis…
Ever the optimist, I think of the upsides:
(1) The OEM reinforcement plates from Turner Motorsport fit like a charm
(2) The crack didn’t go all the way around and cause me to have a major accident
(3) I know the rear will be good for pretty much anything I throw at it after the weld reinforcement
(4) My wiener schnitzel is still above average in girth, regardless
Proof I’m not just pulling your leg and (1) above is true:
As for (2), you can see much more clearly the extent of cracking after the area was cleaned and prepped by “Da Man”
As for (3) and (4), well you’ll have to take my word for those.
In the meantime, Wayne got to work under the car and performed the hard-core cleaning and prepping the four areas where plates would be welded, followed by the actual welding of the plates to the underbody.
I did the easy stuff and started assembling the new subframe / control arms and transferring parts over to the new unit:
See the old subframe at the bottom, new one being worked on at the top!
The Powerflex urethane subframe bushings were really a nice fit and went in real smooth.
Meanwhile, the UUC Rear Trailing Arm Bushings (RTABs) had a crappy a$$ fit- loose as hell and they made me think of the mother in the show “18 Children and Counting”. Damn.
These look decent but fit so poorly in the trailing arm they will actually fall out if not held in with the bolts when mounted. You can even see in the photo they’re loose… I plan to replace these with Powerflex units in the future.
Over on the other side of the massive two car garage, Wayne is getting real busy with some ReAL WorK (SoN!)
Grinding / Prepping Plates for a nice weld job
Kickin’ a$$ with some proper welds
Spray painting the underbody for rust protection
Looking nice! Big thanks to Wayne, seriously…
I got under the car to admire the handiwork, then returned to my subframe(s) to do what I do best and butcher stuff:
“Oh so the ABS sensor is supposed to come out as one piece you say?”
Some stuff even a moron can do, like match the lengths of the adjustable rear arms to the stock piece (at least until this sucker is aligned properly). So I hit that… I went with SPC rear camber arms, by the way.
Mounting the trailing arms onto the subframe (note rear sway bar was transferred over from the old subframe as well). I will be running stock M3 front sway bar with stock rear sway for the time being.
Sway bar goes in, other trailing arm is assembled, we torque down all the nuts and bolts to Bentley specs and the entire subframe is almost ready to put back into the 325!
The red / gold things in the upper control arm are the adjustable perches for the suspension (Ground Control / Koni w/ Eibach Springs, basically a run-of-the-mill full GC kit).
Getting there!
Wayne moving the creeper so my clumsy a$$ doesn’t accidentally use it as a skateboard in his garage.
NOTE: If you are a sharp guy, you’ll notice the old LSD went into the subframe.
Well, apparently the output flanges (diff to axles) are a different size from non-M to M.
(LSD was from a ’97 M3 so it works with larger axles). I didn’t realize how easy it was to swap the output flanges- thought it would be much more work than it actually is- so I kept the stock 3.15 LSD for now. Will be putting in the 3.38 LSD at a later date though!
Stock rear struts vs. Koni adjustables
Getting the subframe into the car wasn’t bad at all. The trick was to balance it and jiggle around towards the front where it tended to “hang” more with those long a$$ studs coming down for the front mounts.
Subframe in and bolts torqued up = only exhaust left!
Wayne put the exhaust in pretty much by himself- still going strong even though it was about 10:30 PM at this point. I handed him tools and otherwise pretended to assist.
We only had two breaks the entire day, 30 min for a quick run to Dunkin Donuts at noon, and took about 1 hr to go in and eat a killer burger from the local D-burg spot while watching some Speed TV on the big screen. So, yes, WoRk was done today.
11:00 PM
We finally set the car down after a 14+ hour day…
Not wanting to leave anything to chance, our man took the car for a quick drive and he pointed out the following – all after a quick 5 minute turn at the wheel.
(1) Left tie rod was loose and a quick pull on the front wheel at 3 and 9 o clock confirmed something was up with it. Put it on my to-do list for replacement.
(2) Main bolt on stock front strut was loose (we ran out of time to put new front struts on so the old ones off a ’99 M3 were left on the car for now) - ILL! Wayne hit it with an impact gun and that issue was solved. Props! :thumb
(3) There is a loud clunk from the rear of the car (on both sides) when going over a small bump at low speed. After having double checked all the suspension components, we concluded it was the RTAB. A quick visit to bimmerforums.com yielded a couple of threads on this- basically it’s not uncommon and probably a result of the poor fit with the UUC piece and not using marine lube on it. Will update if it goes away after I replace the RTABs with Powerflex pieces.
(4) My front tires were WAY worn on the inner edge, likely a result of crap alignment and also negative camber after installing M3 struts/springs that lowered the car and scrubbed tires that were probably toed in/out/who knows!? I made it a point to throw on my winter set with good tread immediately.
Overall Impressions
Well the car look, felt, and drove like a bucket of shiz when I pulled into the driveway that morning, and after the repair the rear was definitely much more planted. I swear, a horse carriage with a single transverse leaf spring had more stability at speed than what I rolled in with.
As I drove to D-burg that morning, doing a killer 40 mph on the highway, I was fiddling with the wheel to keep the car straight- probably a result of all the play in the subframe with relationship to the body. Since the trailing arms and control arms were connected to the subframe, they moved too and caused all the issues.
At one point I seriously thought about calling AAA and getting it towed, the car felt so bad.
Although the front suspension was not yet installed at this point and it was not yet aligned, the difference was already huge and well worth the effort, time, and money spent.
Lessons Learned
• Source subframe and control arms separately to have the bushings removed ahead of time. If not, what took a long a$$ day will take you MUCH longer.
• If you are not going to replace wheel bearings as I did, skip sourcing a set of trailing arms and buying the other stuff like hubs, etc. But hey, if your car has 130k+ on it and bearings go… Ya missed your chance to do it and it’s gonna cost ya!
• When lowering the subframe, make sure you are lowering the subframe at its CG (center of gravity, or center of mass). For the entire subframe assembly, the CG appears to be about 2 inches to the rear of where the BMW logo is on the side of your diff, below the output flanges.
• If the subframe is coming out but seems “stuck” on the front studs, don’t force it to come out unless you are sure it’s coming down vertically and not bending the stud. If you continue lowering it and it’s not straight, the moment created at the stud to underbody interface (remember “cantilever beam”?) MAY cause even more damage to what may be cracking around the front subframe mounts.
• Cleaning / Grinding / Prep takes MUCH longer than actual welding for the plates.
• If your welder / assistant / BFF / Homey Lover Friend doesn’t know what he / she is doing, do not pass go do not collect $200 go to someone who does.
• Welding the reinforcement plates is a balance between joining enough of the metal to make it sturdy but not welding so much that the metal is heated and weakened as a result.
• Replacement plates are a great fit – BUY
• Powerflex Bushings are a great fit – BUY
• UUC Bushings are a sucky fit – POO
• 3.38 Diff from an M3 will go into a non-M and all you have to do is remove the output flange (to axles) and swap them with the 325i pieces. The 4 bolt input flange (from driveshaft) actually matches up.Again, I didn’t realize how easy this was due to fatigue / trying to get things done that day, but using the trick in this video you can remove them WAAAY easy:
It’s well past 1 AM now so I’m going to continue this later.
[TO BE CONTINUED!!] (yawn)
Step 6: Dialing in Suspension / Alignment / Wheels & Tires
You’ll probably be better off with OEM RTABs and a set of limiters over poly.
they’re really not that bad to install if you have a tool (made, rented, or bought)
i’ve got so much to say, but no time to type it all…
-my subframe mounts were worse.
-the poly shit is fun, have all the same stuff in mine for the most part.
-should have bought a different brand of lower control arms.
-you are a messy ass worker, that garage looks like a tornado hit it.
-my uuc rtab’s fit spot on
-did you get poly or delrin diff mounts? dunno if i missed that.
-why a 3.38 diff? look at a 3.73, or 3.64 if you can find one
-big front sway yet?
-when the heck are you gonna address the body?
:thumbup
Who cares about the stupid body? when you gonna come out and slide this pig?
i do actually.
no reason to build everything up, but leave it looking as is. this car was supposed to be a daily afterall, and i think its beyond that point now.
enough with the damn drift shit already dude, your turning in to a fan boi.
after all the “precision handling bits” he might actually wanna track the car, not just slide it around.
:rofl
Precision handling bits :rofl
Why does a daily have to look perfect?
Isn’t the point of a daily to get from point a to point b?
We got tires and wheels, come slidin’.
Thanks for the comments:
Here’s my reply:
On subframe mounts, good to know someone else has seen the issue…
On LCAs I’m assuming you’re talking about the rears… I went with SPC because of budget and they are stronger than the stock ones (then again, so is a twig).
The major work was not done in my garage. I don’t care what a garage looks like as long as the work that comes out of it is proper. My garage at home is pretty clean, but nothing serious gets done there…
I have heard a variety of things with UUC’s stuff, more toward the negative, but I’m glad yours fit. Since the inner diameter of the RTAB hole must be the same, I can only conclude there is variance in the product = not good.
Front diff mount was changed out to OEM.
3.38 because it was locally available and I got a good deal on it.
No big front sway for now, will take me some time to get used to the car first.
Body, maybe next year, maybe never. I’m not much of an exterior / cosmetics person. And my budget is always a consideration…
