the only people i’ve ever heard bitch about socialized medicine are conservative americans.
go ask a canadian what they think of their health care system. many of them are old enough to remember a time before universal health care. even their conservative party sees it at a necessary socialist evil.
and how much more do they pay in taxes?
the less the goverment is in our lives, the better we all will be. Adding healthcare to the list of fucked up goverment agencies will be very bad for all.
Thats the only people that matter so, what? :stick:
Trust our government to destroy our good health care, but health care costs have risen because of Medicare, Government interference, and allowing illegals/bums to get treated while skipping the bills.
They force the hospital to keep many beds empty for that worst case emergency and keep it ready at a moments notice. That medical equipment is EXPENSIVE due to testing, support, and specialty nature of the stuff. All this equipment sits there ready for that huge emergency.
In the last few years, I’ve had about a dozen Canadians in my old gaming clan. Not one of them had or has anything good to say about their national healthcare. Long lines, shitty service, and the list goes on and on.
I don’t know about you, but I can’t plan to have appendicities. (sp) That is pretty much what national healthcare amounts to.
How long will it take you to get to see a doctor after everybody in the US gets healthcare/medical insurance at the same time?
One of my Canadian clan memebers basically said you have to plan your emergency appendectomy. 3 months in advance. God help you if you don’t. or can’t.
I have heard similar stories.
Anything the goverment gets their hands into gets fucked up, healthcare would be no different.
I’m glad you used that procedure to illustrate your point.
You are absolutely full of shit.
The appendectomy was the procedure a friend of mine used to illustrate how well his socialized system has taken care of him.
And I’ll certainly take the word of a man who’s had his appendix removed over some guy who’s “heard things”.
Prime example…the USPS receives federal funding, and still gets destroyed on freight by Fedex, UPS, DHL and the others.
The issue is huge and more complex than just socialized medicine vs. the free market. What we have now (even me and you and people who are buying their private insurance, i’m not even getting to Medicaid/Medicare/etc.) is NOT even close to free market healthcare. We subsidize the shit out of insurance in more ways than one, not the least of which is that we allow insurers to be classified as non-profit entities. They make gigantic profits because they run just like a for-profit business. They charge people premiums and cover claims in a way that maximizes their return in the end, but they don’t pay taxes. They make hundreds of millions in “reserve” just because they don’t make shareholder distributions. If you want to make money selling insurance, then you should be taxed like the rest of us (ignoring the issue of taxes as a necessary evil, I’m just saying at least level the field in this area).
If I buy insurance through my employer, it’s about 50% as expensive as private coverage. That reality doesn’t make economic sense unless your employer is huge, and it’s because the entire health care system is a meandering, outdated patchwork of inadequate coverage, loopholes, government subsidies and over or under-regulation, making it IMO the most expensive national screwup ever perpetrated by the U.S. government. The entire system is an unqualified disaster, but healthcare is so big and considered so necessary that it’s a political nightmare no one can approach with any real solution, because the real solution is a blank page re-design.
* 15% on the first $37,885 of taxable income, +
* 22% on the next $37,884 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $37,885 and $75,769), +
* 26% on the next $47,415 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $75,769 and $123,184), +
* 29% of taxable income over $123,184.
That is the basic Canadian Federal income tax. In addition, there are provincial income taxes. Here are the rates for Ontario, which is one of the lowest ones
6.05% on the first $36,020 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $36,021, +
11.16% on the amount over $72,041
In addition, there are also sales taxes. There is a provincial sales tax, let’s look at Ontario again. Their sales tax rate is 8%. In addition, there is a national sales tax, called the GST(goods and services tax). When enacted, it was 7%. It has since been reduced twice (most recently 1/1/08), and now stands at 5%.
That doesn’t include corporate taxes, plus local wage taxes and property taxes.
Universal health care and socialized medicine are not the same thing. It would not replace the current system, only be a supplement. You would still have your choice between the goverment’s crappy insurance (USPS) or better private insurance (UPS, FedEx…). I am all about the free market and really hate the idea of bigger government but there are a few things I can think of off the top of my head:
The private sector is not doing a fantastic job at keeping costs low. Our health care costs twice as much per capita as Germany or England - and we are not twice as healthy. If we cut that in half, that would save the nation 1 TRILLION dollars per year.
We don’t have universal health care. But, do you know who does? Iraq and Afghanistan. Provided by the US military. I’d rather pay for ours first…
The Hippocratic oath. If we expect doctors to treat people because it is ethically the right thing to do, they can’t be expected to do it for free. We have to pay for it.
Again, I am definitely NOT in favor of more government. But there are some obvious serious shortcomings with the current health care system.
no just drop out of school and get a job that pays for it