Intresting post on the Obama health care system and a different idea of national health care from Ron Paul. http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-06-13/ron-paul-obamacare-is-bad-for-your-health/
that makes sense why would we want to do that?
:bloated: Another “If you can’t pay for healthcare you deserve to die” argument. No surprise coming from Paul. FREE MARKET YAY
Oh you poor misguided soul. Everyone thinks that healtcare is just too expensive and there is no way to make it affordable unless the government takes it over. Everyone also thinks that the government hasnt been involved in our healthcare up until this new bill has been passed. Both of those things couldnt be further from the truth. The fact is that since HMOs were introduced by nixon, the government has been involved in approximately 60 percent of our healthcare. Ron paul was a resident before we had HMOs and he knows that thats when our healthcare was the best in the world. HMOs and government regulation of insurance companies is what causes the costs to skyrocket. The market thrives in every aspect that the government isnt involved in. The market forces prices DOWN not up, due to competition. Cell phones, televisions, gaming systems, computers, all of their prices fall as time goes on due to competition and another company coming out with something better. There was a time in this country, up until the 60’s, when we had what were called DONATION hospitals. These hospitals provided free care by doctors and nurses who volunteered their time. Ron Paul worked in a couple of them and he said everyone got care because of these hospitals. You would never be able to open a hospital like that now, obviously. The procedures, medical equipment, medicine, and care time were all cheaper due to lack of government involvment in insurance. Insurance is there to measure risk, not be used for every little thing you do. You dont use your car insurance every time you get the oil changed, or get gas. You dont use your home owners insurance when you put new lighting in you kitchen or build a shed in your back yard, and YES, medical insurance USED to be the same way. Ive posted this video of peter schiff before here but ill do it again because it is so perfect. He explains everything so perfectly you will have no more questions after watching it.
my mother trains horses for a living, and pays out the ass for health care through Western NY Truckers Association, Independent health just came down and canceled everyone’s policy in the group and offered them half of the old policy back for well over twice the price. it’s happened to a ton of farmers, working class and the like who aren’t working for large companies that they can buy insurance through. is this what Obama meant by change? $1200 a month is a tough act to swallow for health care, $3k+ for a family plan is even better, that’s what they offered her after they canceled her plan.
I had no idea HMO’s were a Nixon brainchild. WOW. I learned something new and have another reason to hate his legacy now. 
Good post. I agree that it’s not healthcare that’s the issue it’s mainly the goddamn insurance companies. Regulate them…or ban them even. In the old days people would go pay a doctor directly WHEN THEY NEEDED HIS SERVICES. Fees were reasonable because the doctor didn’t have to carry a multi million dollar malpractice rider. To have to pay without even needing the services yet, and then to be declined when you finally do need them after paying for a decade or more is a HEIST! The insurance industry is sick, and it’s only needed because you can add lawyers to the list of crooks…along with the bankers, politicians and insurance companies.
I will say this…if they are going to stick to a Keynesian platform and inflate the dollar to $0 spending power I DO want universal health care tho. At least we get something for our taxes and devaluation of our savings. SIGH…lesser of evil is such a bad feeling for me.
---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------
8(
Sorry to hear these kinds of things. My girl has no coverage and just had kidney stones with several doc visits and an ER visit as well. This will be out of pocket and OUT of hand I’m sure. She cannot afford insurance, it would consume her entire wage. When you work to merely afford “insurance”, especially insurance they will change or cancel when you need it most it’s a goddamn CRIME! Is “free” heathcare the answer, which of course isn’t really free to us taxpayers? Of course not. The answer is no more insane medical lawsuits with massive rewards for even the most frivolous claims and no more insurance. Pay as you go, direct to the doctors. Doctor generosity would go up IMO as they are no longer fighting HMO’s from stealing from them and they no longer fear being sued for giving their best.
I guess my question to Joe…since he’s for keynesian and obamacare is…
I know you realize the trickle down costs we as taxpayers will see. We surely will see go-mint mis management of the program and it will turn into bloat like all other facets of government. Would people die from TRUE free market, or would they die from the government turning into the fat kid in the candy store?
Ron Paul represents a lot of common sense to me. And it’s really unfortunate that more people don’t heed his wisdom.
Why do you think people dislike Ron and Austrian economics?
I think it’s because it’s overly logical without any wild supply/demand curve calculations and other BS graphs. If it sounds too simple so it has to be wrong, right?
Also free market would seem to present less opportunities for easy wealth. The irony is the easy wealth granted by Keynesian isn’t shared with the majority aka the working class slave. The easy wealth keeps going into the big boys pockets aka our owners.
http://www.nolanchart.com/article4425.html
Fabian socialism…Nuff said. Americans fall for it…hook line n’ sinker.
I don’t trust anything about healthcare from his family ever since I found out that Rand Paul faked being a legit doctor. I also don’t want a system where poor can’t afford healthcare without the charity of the rich.
So what is the solution?
my preference is for a french style system (with lessons learned since their system is not perfect). basically everybody gets a VERY basic level under the govt. and then you buy as much more as you want and often your employer picks up most of the extra. I’d like practices to stay private for the most part and require all services to be very clearly priced and allow people to shop around.
That’s kind of what Ron Paul suggested in that video. Well that the people pay the day to day costs (not the government), and then you carry a high deductible rider for bigger unforeseen health issues. I REALLY liked his point about the employer paying for insurance being a bad thing. Should your health coverage be tethered to your employment? What if you lose your job…there goes your coverage. Now you can’t afford to eat or take care of your health. Have you seen the costs for COBRA or “Healthy New York”? You can’t afford the coverage while on unemployment. You simply cannot do it, even with a modest lifestyle and no major debt. That’s real life experience…MINE. And I don’t even have a family, that’s single coverage I’m talking about.
I no longer like the “total compensation” aspect of wages and having insurance tethered to my job. That was an eye opener for me. You didn’t mention anything about HMO’s and the likes. Where do those fit in with your idea of ala carte coverage?
Edit—
just saw your link. Looks interesting. I like the concept of the Dr. making less but having lower overhead.
HMOs would be just a part of the free market, they might offer the supplemental coverage, but it’s up to them to reinvent as they wish and offer products consumers want.
You and I aren’t that far apart in our beliefs it seems. 
The funny thing about my above rants…I just NOW watched the videos. I had no idea Shiff was going to rant on malpractice and all that stuff. I love how he PWNED the opposer in the crowd asking why he bets on China. LMFAO
Rand paul did not fake being a doctor, he was indeed on the american board of Opthalmology, he did not like the fact that they discriminated against older doctors, so he made a licensing board that doesnt discriminate. He is 100% legit. His board also has over 3,000 doctors serving under it so its not like its some fly by night certification he has. In fact, he practiced true free market principles. He didnt like the organization he was part of, he thought he could do it better, so he started his own…its called freedom, its just a shame most people dont recognize it that way.
from wikipedia, you be the judge:
Board certification
In 2010, the Louisville Courier-Journal reported that Paul, who described himself as a “board-certified” ophthalmologist, was not certified by the American Board of Ophthalmology.[15] Instead, Paul is certified by the National Board of Ophthalmology, an organization founded by Paul himself in 1999 with Paul as president and his wife as vice-president. The National Board of Ophthalmology’s mailing address is a UPS Store in Bowling Green, Kentucky; the organization lacks a website and clear criteria for certification and is not recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS).[15] A spokesperson for the ABMS stated: “He [Paul] is not board-certified.”[15]
Paul stated that he founded the National Board of Ophthalmology after a dispute with the American Board of Ophthalmology over recertification requirements.[16] In interviews before the May 2010 Republican Senatorial primary, Paul stated that he was certified by both boards.[15] Paul initially refused comment when the press reported on the source of his board certification,[15] but subsequently described such questions as “a personal assault on my ability to make a living.”[17] Paul’s spokesperson stated that Paul’s earlier claim of dual board certification was misspoken in response to an unclear question.[15]
Paul has been licensed to practice medicine in Kentucky since 1993, and his license is in good standing with no history of disciplinary action. The Courier-Journal reported: “There is no indication that Paul isn’t qualified to practice ophthalmology.”[15]
he clearly lied in the best case scenario.
If wikipedia says so then it must be true. :gotme:
I find it’s a fair summation of the facts in this case… what exactly do you dispute?
ummmm nothing from that wikipedia entry proves me wrong…he wasnt certified by both at the same time but he was indeed certified by the ama at one point…he left on his own accord because of discrimination. The last two lines of that entry also show that he IS a doctor in good standing with no history of disciplinary action. So its not like hes some crazy nutjob doctor.