i edited this ^
if we have laws and people still break the law. why have laws in the beginning?
would you rather be surrounded by bad people with some laws “protecting” you or be surrounded by good people with no laws?
i would rather have good people without the laws. if the person is a good person he shouldnt need a law telling him to be good. he should just be good
the paper means nothing more than a way to earn some $$$
yes and maybe they would have been maybe they wouldn’t.
And as far as your trained experts placing shots, within how many shots should they be able to take down an attacker? It’s a trick question as I’ll bring up previous similar incidents where you won’t like the numbers of shots fired by “trained personel” trying to take such attackers down in broad day light without being ambushed or under tear gas effects.
A trained professional will take more shots…so your statitics mean nothing. And thats not what a trick question is…its a question where you think taking more shots is a bad thing when its not.
EDIT: In this scenario more shots will be taken diff scenarios require diff things
Edit: better yet let’s get straight to the point, bullshit me your reasoning as why California bank shootout doesn’t blow your theory out of the water.
:pop
Ever seen a police officer killed by an untrained civilian? I’ve seen a police officer shot once with a 22 in the upper body while wearing body armor and die.
One incident doesn’t prove that the people in the theatre wouldn’t have stood a better chance if someone had a gun of their own that used it. Could a gun owner have tried and failed? Yes Could they have succeeded? Yes. The fact that you for some reason think its impossible to overcome body armor is silly. It happens.
You give me one one example of people in body armor, I could give you dozens of examples of people wearing body armor dieing being shot with handguns dieing.
Could Jesus came in and blocked all the bullets? Sure, you have enough “could” and “ifs” in your argument to become a politician.
Statistics are useless only if you chose to be ignorant of them and refuse to accept that there are situations when having a firearm on you wouldn’t have done shit.
It is estimated that the risk of dying from gunfire is 14 times higher for an officer not wearing a ballistic vest than for one who is.
Since the police handguns could not penetrate the bank robbers’ body armor, the patrol officers’ bullets were ineffective. SWAT eventually arrived with rifles powerful enough to penetrate the body armor.
nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the robbers and the police.[2]
I can’t even fathom how twisted your mind has to be to try to keep arguing against this. A man with a well thought out plan, ambushes a theater armed to the teeth and disorienting the public as well as killing their visibility and vision by tear gas.
If this is so innefective where a lone gunman can kill an attacker in a situation listed above you might want to write a letter to swat teams and tell them their plan is innefective and they will all be killed by a maybe trained, maybe not person with a 9mm.
And just for the record, this is your argument as it sits
"If one person COULD have been trained and IF they decided not to do what most responsible gun owners on firearms would (not take shots in a crowded panicking theater with low visibility but rather run out and make post against the door) and IF they had a conceal carry gas mask and didn’t panic in such an ambush (where even trained military personel panics) he COULD have possibly penetrated body armor or have gotten a headshot.
:crackup
I got a more likely scenario for you.
IF they all bought lottery tickets and won, they could have their own theater and not get shot!!& :ponder
None of those are my arguments…I just said you can’t just assume that an armed citizen would have had no luck against him. Your trying to say theres no chance a concealed gun carrier would have made a difference…you nor I know that. Maybe this would have been the 1 time out of 14 where a round would have slipped under the gunmans vest.
And there you go again with things I didnt say. How is SWAT ineffective? They wear vests and use tactics in order to lower the chance of being injured or killed…theres always a risk. They don’t become invinsible targets just becuase they wear vests thats what you dont seem to get. Case in point, even when swat has used flashbangs, gas, while wearing level 3 body armor and body bunkers, with military style rifles, some have been killed unfortunatly so its possible.
You also don’t understand I’m conceding that a person with a handgun most likely wouldn’t have been able to stop this person but your argument is absolute saying theres NO chance a person would have stopped him Im saying there is a chance, no matter how small it would have been higher than having noone armed.
PS: Chance with no gun vs a gunmen with a vest is prolly alot lower than 1 out of 14 with one.
Great another shooting today. Never ending debate goes on…
and a couple stabbings…we should prolly make knives illegal for everyone.
We should all have rocket launchers for self defense.
but most people cant afford rocket launchers, and they aren practical which is why you don’t see a huge outcry for their legalization.
Doesnt matter.
Should be legal.
Same with full auto and silencers everywhere. Why not.
I have no problem with that.
I agree. Everyone should have suppressors. It’ll stop noise complaints near ranges a bit, as well as reduce the amount of hearing-related injuries involved in the sport.
get a room you two, and alternate who fucks who 
Leave now Commie
Yay! we agree. Mark the date and time!
No homes should have stairs. People fall down them, others get pushed. Raze all the Projects and lets build a few million ranch homes over our flatlands. NO MORE STAIRS. NO MORE STAIRS. If we didnt have them, more peole would live. Ban the stairs. Ban the stairs…
Are you playing stupid or reading is too much for you?
Guess that makes you a Commie, should I change your title now or later?
Even 2-3 shots placed on center mass could have knocked the gun man out of the fight. Just because the round doesn’t pentrate the body armor doesn’t mean the kinetic energy is gone. The physical trauma enacted on the body from the rapid deceleration of the round can break ribs and cause internal bleeding. I bet some heavy internal hemoraging or a collapsed lung would have slowed him down quite a bit. Even if one armed citizen could have stopped him half way through the rampage it would still haven’t ment lifes saved.
just my .02 though
cant go leaving people alive to testify against them…
i think new yorks excessive gun control is bullshit. i just waited 8 months to get my pistol permit. never been arrested, good job, homeowner etc…
bad people who want guns will have guns. no matter what law is in place. all the laws do is fuck over good people from being able to defend themselves. and nyc for example sucks my ass.
ok the counter argument is that some shootings are done with legally obtained guns. ok true can win them all, but if they were easier to legally obtain then the hope is more people at these shooting events would be armed and take down the gunman.
as for the people shooting each other in harlem at a basketball game… hah come on what did u think would happen? seriously stop being ignorant because you are afraid of social backlash. living in the mid hudson valley i get the nyc stations and watch the nyc news daily. holy crap, id say 80% of the crimes are done by 20% of the population if you get what im saying. sure every demographic commits crimes at some point but this crap is pretty overwhelming. like when ray kelly called out the “community leaders” to step up and protest the black on black crime a few weeks ago. he is right and they finally did, but it took some good media coverage and pressure to finally do it.
cliffs notes:
black on black crime - leaders are silent
anyone but black on black crime - end of the fucking world.
this needs to change. crime is crime and its bad all the way around