So, we are spending more energy to make energy? Sounds retarded.
It’s new? ethyl alcohol has been around since the late 1700s.
What do you think this runs on to get it from half way around the world?
What is your point? Are you really comparing a ship to the billions of cars in the world? :confused
yes ethyl alc has been around for a long time, internal combustion engines have not though, New technology is getting better everyday. Why does it matter what a barge runs on to get half way across the world if we produce our OWN fuel out of things we can grow our selves? and if you really wanna get into producing bio diesel, thats a whole other picture. You can produce bio diesel out of pretty much anything, algae,seaweed, dead cats, its just an all new thing that hasnt been too developed yet since all of the regulations and stupid games the govt and big businesses play to keep their profits
Its in reference to your “spending more energy to make energy” comment. That there is a tanker shipping crude.
Yea, we need to get the crude all over here. 
I think when we have it, we should use a process that doesn’t have the consequences of E85.
I’m all for these ideas including make it at home but I just don’t think E85 is the way we want to go. The money we rae spending on that could be done on other alternatives with actual pros.
LOL! Every E85 thread I’ve ever read goes in this direction.
a little math for ya:
E85 - $2.99gal/13mpg = $0.23/mile
93 - $4.55gal/16mpg = $0.28/mile
I used a worst case scenario with these numbers as I’ve seen closer to a 2mpg drop than a 3mpg drop.
So I can save a nickel a mile with E85 and have the benefit of 105 octane with about 5% more horsepower and a cleaner burning engine? Sign me up.
Corn isn’t the most efficient thing to use to create E85. Sugar beets and switch grass are far more efficient than corn. E85 production will begin moving in that direction as it already has in Brazil.
2MPG drop? Stoich for gasoline is 14.7 but it’s about 9.8 for E85? Also, seems to be about 20% or so adjustment to the fuel maps. But, that equates to 2MPG? :confused
E85 has oxygen in it, and gives better part throttle torque even more so with more part throttle timing. It takes 33% more fuel to reach stoich, but at that higher percentage it’s more efficient which makes up for some of that extra fuel, especially for very high compression NA cars or boosted cars with higher cylinder pressures.
Most people who have tuned for E85 will tell you it’s closer to a 15%-20% mpg loss. So far I’ve seen around 2mpg loss.
i dont understand how hybrids are bad for the environment, anybody want to enlighten me here
table of contents ftw that would have been a very long read, page 301 is where it answers my question, thank you
Update: I’m getting 15.X mpg around town and 20.X mpg on the highway which is within 1mpg of what I was getting on 93 octane. ;D
Im definately thinking about it… I need to fix my laptop so I can program for it. I have a pretty good list of pros and cons with alot of factual info in another thread…
P.S. thanks Vlad for posting the link