everybody. stfu and wait for butanol
didnt start a new one to answer my question. :confused
I don’t know what the F they taught you in petroleum school. Clearly not the word hygroscopic.
Gasoline has an energy content of 34.8 MJ/L
E85 has only 80% of the energy content of gasoline.
E85 also has much less heat energy after combustion than gasoline. Since a turbocharger generally runs on enthalpy, there is less energy avalible to the turbine when compared to gasoline, even when the increased volume is accounted for.
1hp from E85 will not spool a turbo as well as 1 hp from gasoline. Since E85 is mostly an alcohol, It has different intrinsic properties, and burns differently than gasoline. The end product of what you get out of the tailpipe is different.
You cannot spool a turbo with ambient temperature air and volume alone. You will need heat energy, it is the dominant factor in a turbo application. Heat energy K is significantly larger than mass flow or pressure.
I wish I could find pump gas that does NOT contain 10% ethanol. Hard times spooling my walnut sized Ko3, LOL
I use 93.My boss is a dealer of E85 plug and play type systems.They go for about 200-300.I personally don’t want to run it on my vehicle .Just dont think its reliable,heard the horror stories
i deffinatly plan on runnin e85 in the future.
runnin race gas ERRDAYY
Lmao good avatar
This may not be fact. But most of it makes sense to me…
- E85 Ethanol is corrosive
Yes ethanol is corrosive, but not very much. Gasoline is corrosive too. Ethanol is biodegradable in water. So it has a tendency to contain and attract water. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Also today’s distilling processes are superior to way back when. We now have better techniques for drying out ethanol or reducing the water content.
On side note, gas contains water too. Ever hear of dry gas?
- If I put E85 in my gas tank, it will eat it away.
If your car was built in the old days, it was had a lead coated, steel tank. The water in ethanol would cause the tank to rust from the inside out. The government mandated that all gas in the USA contain 10% ethanol to help reduce tail pipe emissions. In the 1980s, automakers made vehicles with fuel systems to be ethanol and rust tolerant. Gas tanks began to contain polymers and Teflon which are extremely durable.
- If I put E85 ethanol in my non-Flex Fuel vehicle, it will ruin it.
One tank won’t hurt. Some dealers are spreading rumors and charging $300-$3000 for one tank of accidental E85 use. This use may cause misfiring and a rough ride. Your check engine light will come on. If you should accidentally or on purpose put E85 in your vehicle, drain the tank, put in regular gas and all will be well. If you use E85 without a conversion kit or non-Flex Fuel capable vehicle for an extended period, you can damage your engine.
- Ethanol will burn up my engine.
Ethanol has a lower ignition point than gas. Ethanol has about 115 octane and E85 has 105 octane. It burns cooler and will extend engine life by preventing the burning of engine valves and prevent the build-up of olefins in fuel injectors, keeping the fuel system cleaner.
- Ethanol will ruin gaskets, seals, rings and more.
Running 100% ethanol or alcohol in an engine can cause damage to cork products.
The rubber neoprene used in the last 20 + years is resistant to the drying effect that ethanol may have.
Today’s vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and gasoline. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets may have issues from long term exposure to water.
Vehicles in Brazil have been using ethanol for 30 years and they are completely free from using any foreign oil.
- E85 will eat my rubber fuel lines.
This is another myth from the old days. Rubber technology has significantly advanced so the concerns of a 20 year old car or newer having issues like this are extremely rare. Plus the 15% gas will help keep lines lubricated.
- E85 will destroy my fuel pump.
E85 won’t destroy your fuel pump. If you convert a high mileage vehicle to Flex Fuel, the E85 will cause the sediment in the gas tank to dissolve and then get sucked up by the fuel pump. It is believed that this sediment may shorten the life of the pump of your higher mileage vehicle (100,000+). We have had no reports from customers with damaged fuel pumps.
Video Proof: E85 does not harm engine, fuel lines, fuel pump, injectors, etc.
We do not recommend using E85 in your vehicle without an E85 conversion kit.
- It takes more than a gallon of energy to make a gallon of E85.
This was true at one point in time. Today’s advanced technology and distilling processes actually create considerably more units of ethanol than units of energy used. The processes continue to advance and the ratio will continue to increase.
- E85 Ethanol is worse for the environment than gas.
There have been some people who have published reports stating that E85 is worse than gas for the environment. They have yet to show any scientific proof or case studies that support their claims. Because E85 is cleaner than conventional gasoline, it emits less hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and hydrogen. E85 reduces carbon monoxide emissions by as much as 70 percent — and less carbon monoxide helps reduce ozone formation and greenhouse gas levels. According to EPA, gasoline is the largest source of manmade carcinogens. Ethanol reduces overall toxic pollution by diluting harmful compounds found in gasoline such as benzene and other aromatics.
- Using E85 ethanol will get 50% less mileage per tank.
There are some stories floating around about 50% reduction in mileage or twice as much ethanol is needed. Some of the automakers who introduced Flex vehicles did a terrible job with the fuel management systems that mileage did decrease as much as 50%. After some trial and error, the automakers have significantly improved their Flex systems and mileage conservation is within reasonable losses such as 5-15%. Conversion Kits like the Full Flex have been around for over 20 years. Realistic losses range from 5-15% as well.
- Vehicles need more E85 ethanol so there is less power.
It is true that a vehicle does require more E85 than regular gas since the amount of energy per unit of ethanol is less than that of gas. Ethanol has a lower ignition temperature so the engine overall will run cooler increasing power. It also burns slower so instead of just burning out in one violent explosion forcing the piston down, it continues to burn the entire length of the piston stroke expanding gases more evenly and smoothly. So running E85 will give any engine more power over any pump gas. Also E85 is 105 octane. Gas comes in 85, 89 and 91 octane. The 105 octane of E85 will help to eliminate knocks and pings. All of these benefits will make an engine run smoother and quieter.
- Won’t E85 production deplete human and animal food supplies?
No, actually the production of ethanol from corn uses only the starch of the corn kernel, all of the valuable protein, minerals and nutrients remain. One bushel of corn produces about 2.7 gallons of ethanol AND 11.4 pounds of gluten feed (20% protein) AND 3 pounds of gluten meal (60% protein) AND 1.6 pounds of corn oil.
- Ethanol does not benefit farmers.
The ethanol industry opens a new market for corn growers, allowing them to enjoy greater profitability. Studies have shown that corn prices in areas near ethanol plants tend to be 5 to 10 cents per bushel higher than in other areas. This additional income helps cut the costs of farm programs and add vitality to rural economies. The additional profit potential for farmers created by ethanol production allows more farmers to stay in business — helping ensure adequate food supplies in the future. Ethanol production also creates jobs, many of which are in rural communities where good jobs are hard to come by. A 2005 study by LECG found the ethanol industry powered the U.S. economy by creating more than 147,000 jobs, boosting U.S. household income by $4.4 billion and reducing the U.S. trade deficit by $5.1 billion by eliminating the need to import 143.3 million barrels of oil. Those kinds of numbers help farmers and all Americans.
- Ethanol production wastes corn that could be used to feed a hungry world.
Corn used for ethanol production is field corn typically used to feed livestock. Wet mill ethanol production facilities, also known as corn refineries, also produce starch, corn sweeteners, and corn oil — all products that are used as food ingredients for human consumption. Ethanol production also results in the production of distiller’s grains and gluten feed — both of which are fed to livestock, helping produce high-quality meat products for distribution domestically and abroad. There is no shortage of corn. In 2004, U.S. farmers produced a record 11.8 billion bushel corn harvest — and some 1.3 billion bushels (about 11 percent) were used in ethanol production. Additionally, the 2005 crop was among the largest on record. 2007 will yield the largest corn crop since the 1940s. In other words, there is still room to significantly grow the ethanol market without limiting the availability of corn. Steadily increasing corn yields and the improved ability of other nations to grow corn also make it clear that ethanol production can continue to grow without affecting the food supply.
^ Good post. Pretty much summed it up.
I love the people that are like “OMG E85 IS SO CORROSIVE, GONNA EAT YOUR FUEL LINES”
Yeh more like Q16 will do that not e85
I keep seeing threads with questions about ethanol so I’m bumping an old thread again but it is a sticky. Now, myself as well as many others on shift are using E85. I would like the E85 buddiez to chime in with the make and model they have converted to E85. You are welcome to share experiences as well.
-98 Pontiac Trans Am LS1 V8: mostly stock, intake and catback exhaust
-What I did to convert: 36# (Grand Prix GTP Supercharged) injectors, ~41# @ 58psi. NGK TR6 plugs .45" gap. Changes made to Stoich A/F and PE via EFI Live software. Changed fuel filter after a few tanks
-Experiences: Better low end torque and smoother running in high gear or under load in low RPMs ~1200rpm. Smells like drunk college girl instead of gasoline smell. Knock retard gone when scanning. Fuel mileage decreased to 18mpg average from 21mpg. I drive more aggressively now too. Hard to start in temps under 50*
-03 Evo, ‘built’ engine, highly ported head, big cams, custom intake, etc etc
-Conversion, ID 2000 injectors, 2 modified 255lph pumps, -6AN feed line, Buschur fuel rail, Zetironix real time ethanol content monitoring system (the car would still make a ton of power on the stock feed line and unmodified pumps, biggest restriction was the line)
-Experiences, race fuel performance for 3.20 a gallon. 15MPG highway.
06 evo9-stock motor, stock cams
-conversion- pte1200s, single walbro in tank
-the torque is great, quicker spool, more top end power
What would I need to do in order to run e85 in the audi ? …Its completly stock right now
you would need to get a tunable EMS, a WB02, and as an NA car 30lb redtops would be plenty of fuel since your car is a 4bar base pressure and id put an 044 in just for peace of mind
hmm… doesnt sound to bad . Gotta look into the EMS for these cars .
VEMS
2010 GT-R Premium Edition.
Performance Mods: 3” Big MAF Dual Custom Intakes, AMS 90mm Catless Downpipes, HKS 90mm resonated midpipe & exhaust, Dual Aeromotive 340 Fuel Pumps, ID1000cc Injectors, Custom E85 tune.
I switched to E85 in early March 2011. I had already done two rounds of mods and was still wanting more power, so I contacted my tuner about a turbo swap. Knowing my goals, he suggested I try switching from 93-octane to E85 with my existing mods first…then see if I still wanted to do the turbos. Sure enough, E85 transformed the car and I’m no longer considering turbos. I also no longer get sut on my lower rear valance like I did (catless) on 93-octane.
Down sides are: Cold starts, averaging 12mpg, on full-boost 1st & 2nd gear are now useless, tracking the car means bringing 5-gallon gas cans with me now.
Good post :tbu
But 1st and 2nd are useless in advanced AWD and plenty of rubber on the ground? :wow
Sounds like that car is an absolute blast…er beast.
Was gonna say, odd that this car blows the tires off in 2nd. My way lighter car hooks similar power levels on smaller tires, with zero traction aids.
Lighter car has less mass working against acceleration… Just a thought
Thanks for your posts. I know there are more buddiez out there