FYI: National Fuel Rebates

I didn’t know about these until my wife found them.
http://www.nationalfuelforthought.com/

As it turns out it will be cheaper for me to install a tankless water heater for $1000 than a power vent tank for $580.

$578 40 gallon natural gas power vent tank
-$150 National Fuel Rebate
-$0 Federal tax deduction
-$0 State tax deduction
= $428

$998 Natural gas tankless water heater
-$350 National Fuel rebate
-$300 Federal tax deduction
-$0 State Tax deduction
=$348
Bonus: Cheaper to operate.

:tspry:

I’m assuming you really did your research on that specific tankless model? I’ve seen some awful reviews for some of them in regards to longevity and hot water production.

also cant have pcv pipes with the tankless ones i think

Many give you the option using PVC… Ones I saw required only a 3 foot start with copper. I think.

I talked my father out of one recently. But his situation is/was different.

Way to go NYS

yer first linkz is suckin

edit: and my water heater is new, i need a new boiler >:

edit2: pwns, there is ones for boilers too :tup:

Uh, I don’t think the state has anything to do with this from what I read on National Fuel’s site.

Works fine for me.

Fine Home Building Magazine has an article this month about installing a small tank water heater to help your tankless system.
The tankless water heaters are not all the are cracked up to be.

oh well - comes up product unavailable for me :gotme:

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/house_and_home/water-heaters/review.html

Performance of a tankless water heater may be greatly affected by the temperature of your groundwater. If it’s very cold, a tankless water heater will have a hard time producing hot water quickly. In reviews we read, owners living in milder climates seem to be happier than those in cold areas, where the incoming groundwater can be colder than the U.S. average of about 50° Fahrenheit. That’s because the flow rate is greatly reduced when the incoming groundwater is very cold. Flow rates are qualified by the number of degrees you need to raise your groundwater temperature. Those living in mild climates will get a much better hot-water flow rate, while those in cold climates might only get half as much.

I would be VERY concerned about how it would work at my house. In the winter the water coming out of the cold tap is WAY colder than it is in the summer. I’m guessing that’s the same for most of WNY.

One of those great little joys in life is the really hot shower on a cold morning. You know, where the water is one degree below scalding. I’d be awful pissed if the only time I could get a really hot shower was during the summer.

The specs for the one you listed:

6.4 @ 45°F rise
5.2 @ 55°F rise
4.5 @ 65°F rise
3.7 @ 77°F rise
3.2 @ 90°F rise

I’m sure those are taken right at the heater, so you’re going to lose some of that heat between the heater and your shower head. All new shower heads flow 2.5 GPM by federal law. I tried a couple and ended up taking my old one apart, cleaning it well, and reinstalling it because 2.5 GPM is like trying to rinse soap out in a light rain. If your shower head is in the 3-4 range you may have real problems getting hot water with our winter tap water temps.

You could install a holding tank in your basement to warm the water a bit but, then of course you are cooling your house with that cold water in the tank.:biglaugh:

There are also rebates for updated furnaces too.
$300 for forced air.
$400 for water boiler.

And there’s a $150 Federal tax break too. For whatever reason NYS doesn’t give tax breaks for anything purchased after July 1, 2007.

I was just surprised to find that a tankless water heater could be economically feasible. I’m still looking at the technicals.

I was being sarcastic because of the lack of rebates from NY, I should have been more clear.

:tup:

But we are waiting on further supply efficiency in the tankless arena

If you live alone and only shower once a day and do laundry once a week it may be feasible.
There is no point in heating water all day everyday if you don’t need it.
I considered one when I lived alone.
I ended up getting a 50 gallon tank because I was told that they have double the insulation of smaller tanks.

So the al29 stainless steel vent piping is going to run around $200 bucks to go up 4 feet, over 2 feet, with a turndown at the end. So there goes the minimal cost savings. That, combined with mixed reviews of the things means I’m going to go with a 40 gallon tank with a power vent.

There are different types of tankless water heaters.

There are cheap ones, that are made for people in south america, and maybe florida.

They work fine in those climates.

But there are seriously heavy duty ones made for the north and they work absolutely fine.

In many countries (not us), there are little electric heaters built into showerheads to heat up water before it comes out the showerhead.

The new generation of tankless heaters have variable burners, and a much better output.

I have a tankless heater. They are good for running one shower or faucet but not two.