i’d work out the hybrid model too for comparison sake…they are usually 1.5-2.0 energy factor which could make up the difference in yearly cost you have and they may still have a 30% rebate from the federal government and probably some nyserda credits as well which could bring down the initial higher purchase price
of course if you are looking at something less than a 12 year tank this would probably price you out on the up front costs…
the reason you don’t see a lot of electric installed is that typically electricity costs are higher than gas and the difference in efficiency wasn’t enough to make up for it. today they are much closer together and electricity rates are much more likely to be steady than natural gas prices which can fluctuate more than the relatively heavier regulated electricity market.
i’ve used electric water heaters in all of my rental properties because they are cheaper up front, safer and can be installed in 10 minutes.
I just found that sucker on Lowes, with a 2.4 energy factory. It’s $999 up front, compared to say $500 for a gas model, and it’s almost the exact same cost, so that’s pretty neat. Estimated 1830 kWh / year, at the RGE rate of $0.35 per kWh turns out to be $64 a year with this model. If there were rebates for these still, it could be a contender.
Ok, I’m confused now. Why would anyone want to install a heatpump water heater in WNY, where for half the year you’re paying to heat the airspace in your home.
Heatpump water heaters use the heat in the air to heat the water and exhaust cool air. Great if you’re in S.Florida where your A/C runs year round, not so great when from mid October to April your water heater is going to be fighting with your furnace. I guess you could set it up so in the winter it vents the cold exhaust outside, but you’re still drawing heat out of a room you just burned a bunch of fuel to heat.
i’m not positive on the federal rebate…it was 30% of the price…i believe it was part of the stimulus. NYSERDA always seems like they have some kind of rebate program going although it seems like each funding cycle changes slightly so this time around water heaters may or may not be on the list.
check out nyserda or ask your accountant if you have one…they always seem to know about the various tax rebate programs out there. the electric company would also be able to let you know if it would qualify for some kind of rebate through them.
i’m not sure about your setup in the basement, but these do generate condensate so having a drain of some sort nearby is required.
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typically water heaters aren’t located in an actively heated space of the house…if it is in the basement with the furnace you have excess heat available anyway and you can send the cold air out a vent if you are worried about cooling the space down. they operate between 40-90 degrees…most people’s basements can stay 40 degrees without too much trouble or the need to get heat from the conditioned parts of the house
As slo ride said, their operating temperature is quite low, according to an outside study I just read. Any range (according to this study) between 45 degrees and 120 degrees is optimal. They go on to explain how basements are great locations from this, since it will suck up the extra heat absorbed through the floor in the winter, and the ground’s natural heat. As an added benefit, they act as a dehumidifier as well, reducing the need to run a separate dehumidifier in most cases.
For a drain, access to the sump pump should suffice as a drain, correct?
2010 plumbing code of new york state section 314 condensate disposal
314.2.1 condensate disposal. condensate from all cooling coils and evaporators shall be conveyed from the drain pan outlet to an approved plumbing fixture or disposal area outdoors. condensate shall not discharge into a street, alley or other areas so as to cause a nuisance.
typically when the hvac guys are locating condensate they either go to a mop sink or we provide them with a floor drain to go to. condensate drain is minumum 3/4" and if its larger then that at the drain pan it must remain larger, cannot decrease in size. minumum 1/8" slope and needs an air gap (the reason for not directly piped to waste). just dump the condensate to your sump pump or the laundry tub if its closer.
down here the one county requires that condensate go to the waste sewer system but they do not allow sump pumps to be connected to the sewer unless it is combined because they have big problems with storm water overflowing the waste water systems. so you usually end up going to a sink.
one time a plumbing contractor thought he would be saving some money by routing the condensate from an air handler to a vent pipe…so i got a call saying that the code inspector was going to require a trap on the condensate and that trap would require a trap primer…which would require a new supply line…and this would all be a couple thousand dollar change order… i was so confused about what was even happening because the thing was supposed to go to a mop sink.
get to the site go to the janitors closet to see what the problem is…then the contractor says that i need to look in the ceiling about the kitchenette…so he was going to save $40 in copper piping by routing it the shorter distance to the vent and it resulted in a couple grand of changes…which they installed without approval…so the trap came out and the condensate went back to the mop sink…lesson to contractors- stick to the plans.
Yeah the pumbing fixture is the “trap” for the condensate. Funny that he tried connecting it to a vent haven’t seen that one before lol. Have you looked into trap seals instead of primers? I hate having to use primers.
I know florida code is different, just finished a project in st pete and they had our hvac engineers send condensate to our storm line instead with a check valve
i have seen a variety of trap systems over the years. i’ve done a lot of laboratory design work and many have emergency showers. some clients want to have a drain at the shower others think that the drain represents a huge contamination potential so they just deal with the mess if the shower gets used which others consider to be a contamination problem. everyone seems to agree that trap primers are problematic at the minimum. it seems they often stop working or introduce another opportunity for a major leak above a ceiling in a sensitive space and they cost a bunch of money when you have dozen of drains to outfit.
Good Topic Mark. Let me know what you decide to go with. That hybrid one looks interesting, and since I am in Fairport Electric, that might be an option for me in the future. If you go with it, i would be interested in your thoughts on it.
Yeah, I have to investigate more. I absolutely won’t get a pure electric heater, after reading the pricing, but it’s coming down to Energy Star rated gas (0.67 energy factor), or Energy Star rated hybrid (2.40 energy factor). It’s funny, currently, they cost about the same to buy, after rebates, and about the same to run. It just comes down to which one would be more sustainable for the future.
I love research!
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Here is a quick spreadsheet I wrote up. Unless there is an error in my calculation of cost of therms and kWh (it’s still rough, but that’s close), this is pretty accurate for western NY.:
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An added benefit to the hybrid model, is that it acts as a dehumidifier as well, which can cost $119 - $154 a year to run by itself. So that pretty much makes it dead even with the gas water heater!
It’s like a reverse fridge. It’s an air heat pump that uses a fluid to heat the water, instead of an electric coil (it also uses an electric coil, hence hybrid). It’s basically as energy efficient as it gets, but $$$ up front before rebates.