GM-outsourcing & Davis vs. Reynolds

some Jobs are very difficult and stressfull and I have no problem with people earning their money. If they are worth 80k a year, sweet, pay them that. But when you have people doing bullshit jobs making 100k a year being filed as “part time” you got issues. (like Giambras $80k a year personal driver) One of my biggest issues is the current state of welfare and social programs that keep people dependant on the government. It should not be like that. These are here to help people, not supress them into a state of poverty and keep them there. Again, the government is here to help the people, not keep them dependant on the government like children in a foster home, constantly asking for more.

Very true. I use to work in a factory, right out of HS. making $12 an hr, full benefits, (community blue heath insurance, premium eye/dental, the works). With no prior training. That was enrty level. Maintanence guys were making like $20 an hr, machinests were making tons of money also. It is a deminishing indusrty. Now you have to go threw 4 years of college to make what use to be made on a hs education.

The future at the rate we’re going is basically going to be a society of haves and have nots. Those that bring something to the table education-wise are going to continue to prosper in upper management,engineering,etc. The rest, who cant cut it, education-wise, are unfortunately going to be stuck at $10/hr or less in menial service or manufacturing jobs. While we continue the transition to a service industry, its gonna be more and more sink or swim.

Yeah, which is good and bad. It provides incentive for people to get off their ass and work hard and get an education, but it is also a limited field with an ever growing poplulation of working aged people. The competition to get better jobs is becoming more cut throat, and the middle class will continue to deminish. Those who worked their asses off to become something and do well in life are going to pay more to support those who did not. Sad but true. It is a major reason why I don’t like the current social state. It is easier to do nothing and get money for it than do something and make something of yourself. And if you try to make something of yourself and better your life, you are booted from the system and are screwed. It is a lose lose situation, and one that desperatly needs to be rectified.

the problem is not everyone is cut out to get an education, incentive or not. you can give someone with low intelligence every educational opportunity in the world, prep school, get them into the Ivy League, but they still won’t pass.
it’s like teaching me to be an artist. I’m creatively challenged, cant draw for shit, etc. I could take 82000 art classes and have private tutoring and prob. still suck.

This is fine, but when they can’t make a decent living on an assembly line or as a mechanic we’re gonna be in a world of shit

Thank god i work at fedex. Someone has to ship all this stuff back into the US

Very true. Then those who made something of their life have to pay for it. The middle class had carried this country. It is deminishing. Now people are faced with either Jobs they are not qualified for, or jobs that will not support them.

Truth.

On that same note, one of our customers is Stone Container, they make boxes and cartons, etc.
Their business has dropped over the years because parts are being shipped into the US in boxes and not as much stuff is being made here so the need for boxes has declined.
This is just another example of how manufacturing drove the US economy for so long.

I still blame clinton and NAFTA for alot of it…not to turn this into an anti Clinton debate…but he really fucked us with that…and establishing greater trading with China, which is against US forign polocy anyways because they are a communist country.

NAFTA/CAFTA was a republican idea from day one. The only reason Clinton was for it is b/c he is of the DLC camp of Democrats who agree with the general republican thinking when it comes to global economic policy.

If you want to bring on tariffs that’s fine with me, I make enough money to pay 3x as much for my TV, computer, etc… etc… But it will hurt our economy. Economic protectionism isn’t a winning game plan it’s life support for those unwilling or unable to adapt. It’s forced WELFARE for a nation and inflation will skyrocket.

This whole outsourcing issue is a short generational one. Back in the 50’s and 60’s kids in highschool still often planed to get out and work in a factory, no one was suggesting that route in the 90’s when most of this forum was in high school. I can’t name one person I knew in high school who went and worked in a factory on the line.

Yeah it’s going to suck for millions of Americans, especially people who own manufacturing companies. But look at AWDrifter, he’s at least trying to get into new markets to expand/maintain his business…

The new American manufacturing market should be in high quality niche markets.

NAFTA Vote:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00395

10 of 38 Nays were republicans…

CAFTA Vote:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00170

10 of 45 Nays were republicans…

Yeah really a liberal idea :bloated:

^^ right on the money. The US will never sustain itself on “generic” manufacturing. Making a simple part is easy, and can be done probably as cheaply anywhere else in the world. What we can excel at is “just in time” solutions to new problems - e.g. designing/tooling a repair part for heavy machinery in real-time. This is something we can do much better than anyone else overseas. It’s in something like this where being close to your customer (interacting and getting instant feedback) really matters.

i actually think the answer is simple.

people in china are making just enough to survive manufacturing goods. and so they lack the motivation to make a quality product in a short period of time. thats why chinese made products are usually junk.

people in america are making enough manufacturing the same goods to pay for a house, a few cars, cable tv, cell phones, brand name clothing and fine food but still lack the motivation to make a quality product in a short period of time because they feel like they are “owed” this lifestyle.

ill tell you why manufacturing in the USA is failing. its because this countries workers have become so arrogant to think they are worth a middle class check without putting forth the hard work and skill that created the middle class in the first place. its the attitude this whole country has developed and its gunna be our doom.

You’re wrong gov’t funded housing, food, etc… etc… heavily offsets low wages. The Chinese social model is excellent for low cost labor.

That’s true… it’s that sense of entitlement that people seem to have, and the unions bring it out even more.

Yet it was still Clinton who proposed the bill and passed it. If it was not for him, it would not be an issue. More americans would also be able to afford to pay 3x as much for said goods, because they would still have high paying jobs.

  1. I have deeeeep connections with both Trico… and Jack Davis.
  2. Trico would have stayed in WNY but they would have been silly to. Local economy, and greener grass forced them to move. They still have other plants throughout the US I believe.
  3. Jack Davis is a self made millionaire. The avg income for the factory workers not managment included is 45k annually I think… which, for factory workers is very good.
  4. Tax the fuck out of imports.

Done.

sinse you havnt really posted anything to back your statement i will post a few things that support what im tryng to portray.

http://www.chinalaborunion.org/en/newsdisp.php?id=020
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20060623_1.htm

That is by no means universal. If you want cheap, then you get cheap (which is often Chinese-made). Conversely, there are many things that are not cheap and Chinese-made.

IBM sold its laptop business to Lenovo - which is a Chinese company. And I don’t think that people are complaining that the Thinkpad line all of a sudden became junk because of it.

And…compare that to rural mudhut homes on farms they would be living in…add the fact that many send money back to rural farms to their families. I was actually just watching a show on discovery or travel showing a girl who worked in the factory and her realatively nice $15/mo apartment

Your motor may be junk.We got called into the office last night about 7:45 and was told to stop working,have your ppl punch out @ 8:00 and hopefully we’ll have new/better parts by tom. night.
I guess all the engines we made since LAST wednesday are possibly bad and the cam may break.:roll2: I guess the one part of it is too soft.Not alot of details yet,But the one higher up foreman said they are already in cars.Talking around 10,000 engines just from our plant.Not sure who else the cams are sent to.
Should be an all out overtime period tho for a few weeks if we have to somehow replace all these engines in the schedule.
D