Record profits at a time when gas prices choked the economy? Maybe its just my anger over this but I’m thinking that we should just socialize this industry and regulate the hell out of it.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/30/news/companies/exxon_earnings/index.htm?cnn=yes
Someone give me a compelling argument against it.
They need to cap the price, its that simple if they cap the price of oil at 60-70$ it removes bogus speculation.
It also removes places paying more for gas, when areas they dont even recieve gas from have bad weather.
And somehow WalMart is still #1…
Both of which piss me off as well.
Oil keeps the world running and it’s price fluctuates wildly?
The profits they’re making now is what allows them to invest in finding new oil?
The fact that their profit margin on their gross sales is below what most other companies a good return?
Or how about the simple fact that Exxon doesn’t control the price of oil, supply and demand (and our own stupidity of allowing so much speculation in the oil market) does?
After reading all of your other posts I would expect you to say that.
Socializing or nationalizing or whatever you want to label it is a bad idea. First you want healthcare nationalized and now the oil companies? What’s next the banks? Do you seriously think all of the shareholders will sit idly while people like you and your fellow party goers demand nationalization of private companies? Look what happened to Venezuela after they nationalized their oil companies if you still think it’s a good idea.
All I’m saying is that its not right that we have to suffer to give them thier profits. If oil was really so expensive shouldn’t that have also taken a hit?
No one should have had an increase in thier profits if oil was really that expensive.
And no I’m not for natinoalizing banks, just regulation.
Again don’t just tell me its bad, tell me why oil comapnies, that have such control over our economy, should not be controlled by government?
And I agree that oil speculation should also be stopped completly.
Because they are a private industry? Maybe?
Not good enough. I’m not die hard on the idea, but right now the argument for it makes more sense to me then arguments against it. If someone can throw out some facts and explain them, you can quite possible convince me.
In Venezuela, gas is cheaper than dirt there, from what a Venezuelan friend of mine tells me. Of course they have a healthy supply of their own, so why shouldn’t it be.
If we were to regulate more here we might take some profits from the company owners/shareholders (which are mainly controlled by the sheiks in the middle east) and remove profit from speculators to get prices down for everyone. Sounds good to me. Try getting that past all the rich bastards who actually have a vested interest in oil though… not gonna happen. Oil owns us.
I’ll even cliffs note it for you…
The profits seem so giant, Dougher said, because of the scale of the industry.
But if you take a closer look at each dollar invested and how much is earned, Dougher said the oil industry earns a lot less than some other major industries. API says its members earn about 8.3 cents per dollar invested, compared to 18.4 cents for pharmaceutical manufacturers and 19.1 cents for beverage and tobacco producers.
“A lot of consumers think that [a $2 per gallon run-up in gas prices] is all in profits, it’s all going to some fat cats back in some room somewhere,” Dougher said. “It’s 8 cents. It’s fair. The other 92 cents is going back into investments, back into operations, to bring more product back to the market.”
This week Valero Energy, the largest U.S. oil refiner, posted sharply lower quarterly earnings. That’s right — when BP and Royal Dutch Shell reported big earnings, Valero showed signs of struggling, with earnings of $261 million. The reason: very narrow margins in the refining process, as crude oil prices rose even faster than gas at the pump, and losses from unplanned outages at its refineries.
While crude oil has gone up from about $66 a barrel to almost $119 — an 80 percent increase during the last year — gas has gone from $2.71 a gallon to $3.60, an increase of only 33 percent.
^ I especially love that last part when you listen to people today bitching that gas hasn’t fallen as fast as oil, while they forget all about the fact that gas didn’t go up nearly as fast as oil either.
But that is a pittance to mutual fund giant Vanguard which has more than $18 billion in ExxonMobil stock. Most of that is owned by investors in the company’s S&P 500 index fund and its total stock market index fund. And it’s not just Vanguard. Almost every major mutual fund company owns oil stocks. Two of Fidelity’s mutual funds, for example, rank in the top 10 holders of ExxonMobil stock.
The oil companies are “broadly owned by tens of millions of middle-class Americans, anyone with a pension plan or 401(k) or IRA account, a mutual fund,” Dougher said. “They’re really the owners. So, when their stock portfolios go up, that’s really who benefits.”
One last one, should be the nail in the coffin of your idea.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1168.html
The answer to the first question is that over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal and state governments—including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three times what they earned in profits during the same period, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy.
These figures do not include local property taxes, state sales and severance taxes and on-shore royalty payments.
They’ve paid 3 times their profits in taxes. I think the real thief here, as usual, is the government.
amen! so quit hating!
I thought I remember reading somewhere that your father owns a buisness. If this is correct. What does he do and how would you feel about nationalizing it?
well shit, why not socialize everything while were at? Water, Power, fuel, stores, garages, resturants :tdown:
edit: just for comparison. Sony’s DECLINING profits this year are at about 21.4 billion dollars, thats a pretty big lead on the oil industry (roughly 25%).
Well first off my fathers company does not have really any stake in the economy. So there really isn’t any comparison.
Again, I am not completely sold on the idea, and I do not want across-the-board socialism at all.
But if the industry is making “profit” doesn’t the profit only count for money made after the costs and investment? Meaning exxon made nearly 15 billion dollars after expenses? Billions more than last year?
yeah, socialism, great idea.
maybe the government can even start telling me what car to drive, how often I can drive, how often I am allowed to fill it up, how often I can change my oil, etc…
They’re a public-traded company right? Why not buy stock or a mutual fund that includes them and start making money along with them instead of complaining that they’re doing so well?
If we stay on oil then expect it, what do you think gas prices will look like ten years from now if nothing is done?
:banghead: You guys just don’t get it. Only JayS has attempted to do what I asked.
Nationalized institutions are always innefficent and lead to higher costs and a more expensive product. Now if you are comparing it to a corrpt industry that has managed to overcharge, maybe not. But nationalization in even that case is the wrong medicine. You would need more regulation to control fraud, not the price of the product.
Also, the government would be forced to take losses to compete and manage itself, so the taxpayers (you) would eat the cost and pay the difference anyway.
In the end you would be paying more for gas.
well, here’s my take on it. The government has a lot of shit on it’s plate as it is and manages to screw US more often than not. They slip bills by that include all kinds of rediculous taxes and fees (the driver responsibility act is a good example) and generally wasteful spending. We don’t have a handle on pre-existing social programs, so why should we add a new one? If they can fix Social Security, Medicare/Medicade, Welfare, Disability programs, etc first without screwing us in the process, I’d be more willing to listen if they had a viable plan.
however, I’m generally against the government getting too big, even if that means taking the bad with the good