Intercooler considerations

SON240sx Automotive
1

Someone decided it would be a better idea to not talk down to a certain intercooler in a certain group buy, so I won’t.

Yes, those intercoolers look bling, shinny, welded not bad, blah blah blah. You can either sit back and pretend like things such as EFFICIENCY and PRESSURE DROP don’t exist or you can realize that someone is trying to look out for people. Completely up to you. No, I don’t have numbers to back up the comparisons of the two intercoolers. I think you would be able to tell the difference if you saw them though. One more thing, hp capabilities mean pretty much JACK SHIT. Sure, in a perfect world one could relate the intercoolers to a hp potential, but that is not why they do it. They do it to sell intercoolers. Hell, no intercooler could support 350hp, if you did it right and tuned it properly, does that mean my piping is as good as a “350hp” intercooler? I fucking doubt it.

Original Nutta: You said “Ehh, i don’t want a Greddy. I want a damn Griffin. Or ARC.
I’ll ask Martin if he can put me in touch with his source.”

Road Race Engineering is the place. If you want end tanks put on one of their griffin cores, Martin is the man to do it. He already has the “template” so it will fit a 240. If you plan on putting it on a stock pig nose (not sure what car you have) then the 24"x10"x3" is the one you want. It is damn tight, any higher is not only hard to fit in but won’t get much air flow unless you do some reworking. I can get you the number and total cost if you wish.

2

Thanks for the heads up Nave. I already said my bit in that thread.

3

goes and looks

Why yes, yes you did. My work here is done then, continue posting in the thread is someone has questions obviously. If you (Original Nutta) or anyone wants the info for Griffin PM me.

4

Would you explain to me how you can tell quality of an IC by looking at it?

Thanks,
Andrew.

5

So Nave you’ve dealt and seen these “other” IC and are telling me they are no good? or are you just making an assumption, that there is a reason why its so cheap ?

6

Accurately, you can’t. You need to test both of them, under the same conditions… not many people do that. However, looking at the core will give you a good idea. Get right in there, you will see the difference. The key is to get a good tranfer of heat, obviously. How do you do that? A few different ways. More area is the best way, that is why there are fins there to begin with, they increase the area. Without going all technical, everything is a fine line. You want to slow down the air going over to core enough so that it can cool it down, but not build up around it or pass right over it. It is even more important to not have a huge pressure drop across the inlet and outlet… no one ever talks about that. Think of pressure drop like a restriction. If the air gets restricted enough then you might even make more power WITHOUT the intercooler, with less boost but a free flowing system. If nothing more than the lag you would have, if there is a huge restriction you could have a coffee in the time it would take to boost… Would that be worth the savings?

I have seen a street import IC, it is alright I guess, but the core seems drastically inefficient compared to others. Even the greddy one is questionable to the Griffin. I don’t want to get into specifics, simply because it has been a while since I compared intercoolers and don’t want to say something I don’t know for sure. I made my decision, it was cost effective and I think I got one of the best cores out there.

Coles: You can only get a pretty good idea of quality when you look at something. Testing would be better, flow bench, etc. You shouldn’t be concerned with how it looks but rather how it performs. I think all the intercoolers will sit infront of your car with no problems, probably wont leak either. The ones that COOL AIR EFFICIENTLY are worth the extra money IMHO. If you want to waste all that potential, go for it.

7

I guess I didn’t directly answer the cheap question. When you look at the core you will see very complex designs to help the efficiency. Running air through a tube that can have air blow over it is cheap. Producing very fine fins that are not bent all the time is not easy. Does that answer it?

8

Since the GB thread was locked.

Nave you can hit me with all the technical specs you like and explain all you like. I have been studying heat trasnsfer, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics in University for 2 years now. I think I will more then be able to understand what you are writing.

and once again you are comparing tube and fin to bar and plate. Bar and plate is best hands down, thats why these are not expensive. Man I sound like a broken record.

Start it up man, cause I can talk it.

Andrew.

9

Two years eh, not bad. I remember when I was taking those clases I actually understood was going on to get my marks. Oddly enough, I never really had to apply all the theory to practical, I just have a ring on my pinky finger that says I can. Don’t try to intimidate me because you are in engineering, been there, done that.

10

wonderfull so now we are on same level. One asshole engineer to another.
And yes I don’t apply half of the theory either. 3rd year seems to be a little better in that aspect.

What univ did you graduate from?

11

Carleton, where the K stands for quality.

12

:lol:
I’m at Ryerson where the H stands for highschool

13

if you want flow, get bar&plate intercooler.
If you are upset with the flow of a fin based intercooler, turn up the boost.

14

Great point, no, really, that makes so much sense. Not big enough throttle body? Turn up the boost.

Wrong cams? Turn up the boost.

Plugged air filter/bad flowing air fileter? You guessed it, turn up the boost.

If you cant add anything informative to a thread then why bother? Do you think what you just said makes you look smart or like you know what you are talking about?

For those that care to see what a Griffin core looks like: http://neo240sx.ca/nave/GriffinCore.jpg

Tube and Fin:
http://neo240sx.ca/nave/TubeFin.jpg

Bar and Plate:
http://neo240sx.ca/nave/BarPlate.jpg

15

Boy arn’t we in a pissy mood.
I didn’t mention throttle body, cams(wtf), filter

Correct me if im wrong, but dont bar & plate intercoolers have better flow / less pressure loss? Show me proof and ill retract my statement.
Someone mentioned pressure loss through intercooler due to possible flow problems, turning up the boost would increase pressure at the other side of the intercooler correct? Not the ideal solution, but it would work… until a point to where the restriction of intercooler wouldnt allow that more air to get through.
Noone said anything about bar&plate intercoolers, so i WAS adding relative information to the thread, apparently not enough to please you.
Next time could you please refrain from replying like a jackass, possibly asking me to add more info to what I said.

neway, are you the guy with the dark green s13 + sr? I cant remember who u are.

16

Nah thats Nate, Nate’s a Good Guy…

This Guy Nave is just silly…

He’s bashing Tube and Fin yet the pic he posted of the Griffen core is Tube and Fin… :stuck_out_tongue:

17

The griffen looks like a tub & fin to me? How is this better? I like the Micro Grove Tube on the street imports for the better flow and probably less pressure drop then the Griffen. The griffen would probably flow slower but might be better for higher boost. I am not boosting 15+psi here.

18

:lol: this is too funny. Big props out to Marc and Nave.

19

No, you didn’t, I was using that as a means to point out that upping the boost does not fixt the problem it only masks it.

Correct me if im wrong, but dont bar & plate intercoolers have better flow / less pressure loss? Show me proof and ill retract my statement.

Correct, but that does not mean that every tube and fin design is worse than every bar and plate. In fact, just saying the design means it is better is inappropriate. One must test something to be sure, both you AND me are really only speculating based on what they look like. What I am saying is the Griffin one looks a whole lot better than the Street Imports one. If you don’t think so, fine. But if you want me to believe you show me numbers from an unbiased test. The problem with testing them is that even that is not accurate for reasons I will not go into.

Someone mentioned pressure loss through intercooler due to possible flow problems, turning up the boost would increase pressure at the other side of the intercooler correct? Not the ideal solution, but it would work… until a point to where the restriction of intercooler wouldnt allow that more air to get through.

Yes, it would work. So would putting nitrous on it, that is not the point. Again, we are talking about efficiency not how to overcome a bad design.

Noone said anything about bar&plate intercoolers, so i WAS adding relative information to the thread, apparently not enough to please you.
Next time could you please refrain from replying like a jackass, possibly asking me to add more info to what I said.

You were adding relative information, yes. BUt if you look at what I said I used the word INFORMATIVE. A quick two liner in a thread is lame. This is not a standup act, if you have something to say do so like a grown up. You’re upping the boost scenario showed just how much you understand what I am trying to relate to people.

neway, are you the guy with the dark green s13 + sr? I cant remember who u are.

Not me.

SHIFT_SR20DET:

I am in no way bashing a tube and fin design or saying it is superior. What I am saying is that all intercoolers are not equal and that relating their “goodnes” through hp capability is ridiculous.

No idea if you are serious or not.

20

who really cares anyways?

chris is using a 15 year old Volvo intercooler and his car is faster than most people on here…

bar and plate, fin and bumb, whatever…

fast is fast and those GB intercoolers will do better than not having one.

they are also much better than holding out for something better and never getting it.