plain and simple : Too many cheifs not enough indians
I didn’t miss read, I guess gave you too much credit assuming you were making a point that you think sending work overseas etc. is unamerican and being a GM ballridewould never consider GM to be ‘unamerican’.
So anyway, back to the thread then, why is it unethical / moral or unamerican to ship jobs overseas… its’ happened in almost every industry to name yet when it hits the ‘american’ car companies it’s unheard of? That’s the reality of an international car market, prices are dictated by the products and consumers. i’m not a hypocrite, i just don’t see this is unethical, i think the fact that at UAW is allowed to maintain ownership and drag this all down is what is wrong. The government owning a private company is what is unethical.
:stupid:
Work in a sweatshop for a week and let me know if still think it is unethical. Working 16 hour days @ $2/hr in terrible working conditions. I see the point that something has to be done to bring costs down, but I just don’t agree the idea of sweatshops period. I will admit I do buy products that were probably made in a sweatshop, but it is just the way it is…almost everything is made in a sweatshop…but I do in no way promote it.
One thing I will agree with you on is how the UAW took advantage of what a union is supposed stand for and got a bit greedy.
I still don’t see them moving production overseas as automatically being assumed it’s sweatshop working conditions. The UAW failed and will continue to fail, anything heavy union takes a huge hit and it is becoming more obvious as a whole.
It will be interesting to see what happens… it’s a shame that so many car lots are going to be shutting down across america. Maybe we all should start buying up our favorite cars and hording them??? :dunno:
If the workers in the foreign country are used to working 20 hours a day for $1, then would it still be considered a sweatshop?
All car manufacturers are doing bad but GM and Chrysler have proven to be completely worthless. Chrysler just flat out makes a shitty product. GM makes some nice cars but has to sell them at too high of a price to make any money. You can blame the union but you have to also blame management for letting the union fuck them over.
and the fact that management based the company in a right to work state… get out of the union bullshit, move to a non-union state and it’ll all work out. :dunno:
while I hate unions and how they are used today, I don’t think that was the only reason GM fell. Upper management should be able to have an idea of what is going on and make adjustments.
And none of this has to do with upper managment and there golden parachutes
Missing your point…so if you are used something then it takes the definition away? So if you are used to sucking my cock everyday for a nickle…but are used to it, does it not make you a gay cocksucking prostitute?
no not really, i mean sure some guys become multi millionaires adn those same guys ran the company into the ground- but how did they run it into the ground, imo you can dumb it down to this:
- GM signed union contracts for years promising healthcare and pensions that they couldn’t afford but had to since they had production models set up relying on unions.
- the price of their cars (production costs and sales price) went up to counter effect the balooning debt, profit margins went down
- excluding some models, for the most part their competition made much better cars for less money
- gm became less competitive, uh oh…
- gm flooded the market to try to increase market share ‘if we can’t make the best cars for a good price, let’s just make a billion shitty ones’
- the union was ok with this, it extended their contracts
… at this point the writing was on the walls - that bullshit kept them alive for a while, the economy was doing well so it was easy to ignore that both the company and union had dug their own graves
- the economy crumbled
- their business model is entirely based on cheap money coming in bc nothing good or unique was coming out of GM to make ‘new’ money for them
- the whole thing shit canned
- obama for yo momma HOPE! CHANGE! :boink
- que the force feeding media shit that the GM is now leaner and smarter
- last i checked the same guys who caused the problem (union bosses and GM management) are still there
- the company is in deep deep shit
to sonny’s point (?) it’s not impossible to build cars in the US- toyota and honda do it- they just don’t let the union or union states kill their profit margins. unions have kinda run their course for the most part with machines doing so much work they really aren’t necessary liek they used to be. they’re a nice bonus, but shit- i don’t have a pension or a cake contract that sets my hours.
you do drive a GM so I will type this out nice and slow so you can understand.
What is a sweatshop? The definition will vary depending on the country. If India( for argument sake) is paying workers horrible and with horrible working conditions and then GM comes along and offers better pay and conditions is it still bad? If those conditions and pay that GM is offering to the india people is $3/day and a celing fan, it may be shitty for us, we may consider that a sweatshop, but the people of india may think that’s the best job in the world.
That is what is crazy about this whole thing. How can GM still continue with the same people that ran it into the ground? Since the gov is now in control, the first thing that should be done is removal of all upper management.
I don’t give a fuck what the pay/conditions are compared to. I realize the point you are making, but I think it is pretty weak. Bottom line used to or not…better than most in your area or not…if you work long hours (16-20 or so hours/day 7 days/week), poor/dangerous work conditions, and still live in poverty then it is a sweatshop. No need to justify it by saying, “well they have a ceiling fan…well they get $1 more per day than another company…well they should be happy they have a job”. Don’t act like a typical ignorant American….wait you are a Ford guy so I guess you can’t help it
Who gives a flying fuck what their working conditions are? The fact is that labor in Indonesia or China or wherever is pennies on the dollar compared to there in the US. American workers will never be able to compete with that. American companies can’t stay competitive. That is one of the big reasons why we are so fucked right now. America doesn’t produce anything anymore. We just consume.
That is what is crazy about this whole thing. How can GM still continue with the same people that ran it into the ground? Since the gov is now in control, the first thing that should be done is removal of all upper management.
Emotionally, that is the way to react. However, you can’t just fire all of the management of a multi-billion dollar international corporation with one swing of the sword. Who the fuck is going to run it? :ugh2:
i know, but since when has the gov’t ever punished someone for being incompetent. heck even when we elect ppl we elect the same useless bozos over and over again.
dude- the entire world except 30 countries or so operates nothing but sweatshops.
I get the point…my point is it doesnt make it not a sweatshop…or right at all!
gods and clods man- w/o sweatshops and the like we wouldn’t be living large and in charge. sad as it is- i’m in no hurry to fix sweatshops, i’ve got to handle my own shit and cheap stuff is what makes my meager paycheck go. they can rise up and revolt if it’s too bad, we did… (bonus we had an ocean to hide across) :weak:
Are you serious? You think it’s because of sweatshops that we’re “large and in charge”
totally the opposite, bro. TOTALLY.
I can’t believe you actually just said that… :hsugh:
If the workers are getting higher than average wage and in a better enviroment, it is not a sweatshop.
And I really could care less about the workers over in another country, if they want it better, move or make it better. Maybe they should get unions like the US did back in the day.
I may be a Ford guy, but at least my company of choice isn’t bankrupt and owned by the government because they made shitty cars for the past 5 decades.
i agree with your reasoning on why America is screwed. We need to be able to support ourselves with no outside help.
And I think shitcanning all of GM’s management is a great idea. There are plenty of CEO’s and such out there that can make GM a better company that it has been. Fuck, a new management team can’t do much worse than what is there now.
i cant believe you thought i summed up my entire knowledge of world economics with the phrase. ‘large and in charge’ 