As much as I feel badly that he committed suicide, it was still his decision to do so. No one should be held criminally responsible for his death. What if he committed suicide because he got cheese on his hamburger in his value meal and couldn’t deal with it?
Bullying isn’t right. I was bullied for years by a schoolmate years older than me and I ended moving away when I just started maturing to his size. It sucked huge but I dealt with it and grew up. And believe me, it was daily, he lived on my street. Don’t think I haven’t kept up on where he is today cause I know exactly. He wouldn’t even look at me the wrong way today because he’d see I could cave in his skull. His day will come but I still believe suicide is an easy way out. Fighting not to give in is what makes you stronger.
i dont buy the argument that the cool kids in highschool don’t amount to shit. Truth is that MOST people don’t amount to shit including the cool kids and also including (and sometimes especially) the people who are retards in their adolescense. However, i have to admit that i’ve always been awesome and keep getting awesomer so i cannot relate to any arguement presented here anyways.
suicide is wack no matter how you shake it down though. IF this kid had supportive parents and actually had people who loved him his actions have the greatest impact on them, and to the negative. The logic of a suicider is A. if i die i don’t have to deal with it anymore and B. this will make certain people feel bad about whatever they did to me.
Unfortunately i doubt that the people targeted in B. will have had any lasting impact on their lives from this death. It just hurts the people who love you. So, casually, fuck this kid anyways. The saddest part is not what was doen to him but what he did to himself.
However, someone made a very good point here about bullying vs. extreme bullying. I’ve seen extreme bullying, in hindsight it was terrible but there is no viable, sustainable, long term, fool proof solution to it. Some kids are just going to have to go through the shit. More power to them, please don’t off yourself.
Look at the insults we use here on NYSpeed.
AIDS, retards, fat/ugly people, starving holocaust victims in the motivational thread. They are all fair game.
The difference is that most of us are above high school age. I can easily see how a 14 year old can take insults like those that are used on NYSpeed, seriously.
YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL. YOU ARE NOT A BEAUTIFUL AND UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE.
I don’t know how you decide you’re gay at 14 anyways. Lady Gaga is fucking everything up
By sucking dick.
It’s not like he was in the 2nd grade lol.
Decide…?
I knew I loved boobs at 14.
I don’t remember deciding to like them. Just how I felt.
still… 14 is a bit young to actually know you are gay.
i cant even remember having a boner that young
this kid in middle school got a boner once and everyone told him he was going to die so he went to the nurse crying. LOL. is that bullying?
This
I only have a few things to say. Well, maybe more.
It’s great to say (@Don) that bullying somehow makes people stronger, and to a point I’d say being bullied for being gay has actually made me a much better scientist than some of the macho-man scientists I have met. For instance, I actually listen to people when they offer good advice, and I’m not afraid to change my approach no matter how much hard work I’ve put in. This is actually pretty similar to the female scientists I have met.
However, I think we need to clearly distinguish bullying from gay-bashing. There are several reasons, and it isn’t just simply casting the gay-diva light on some issue to make it look different. Bullying on the basis of sexual orientation or anything else that is so related to the core of somebody’s being devalues them much more than doing so because somebody has to wear braces, funny glasses, etc. It often causes young people to question morality (sometimes taught by religion) at an age that they might be too young. A lot of this is simply internalized. I remember during religious studies class we had a discussion regarding how wrong homosexuality was, and the instructor did not discourage my fellow students from repeating all of the negative things their parents had said about gay people. I had no idea how to tell my mom I didn’t want to go to this shitclass anymore (I think I was 11, I don’t know many 11 year olds who are completely sure of their sexuality), so I made up some bullshit. Back on point – I think a young gay person being bullied on the basis of sexual orientation may come to a very different conclusion than those being bullied with regard to something else. There’s a cloud of worthlessness, especially if you think your parents aren’t even going to accept you as you are, that is only darkened by not being accepted by peers. Worse than that, a lot of gay-bashing comes from people who actually use death-related terminology. One could say, “hey, just be strong. they killed themselves because the weren’t strong enough. I was bullied, I was a big tough man about it though,” but I’m not sure these people are critically evaluating the context of their bullying experiences versus the bully experiences of those who are gay.
On the topic of “gay people being flashy”. There are heterosexual 14 year olds who have high school flings, smooching their partners between classes, etc. This is simply blaming the victim. Heterosexual kids have every option to explore their sexuality, have it validated in public, but a gay student wearing some symbol of a person they like is seen as flamboyant?
Another point. At first it was strange to me that this kid would post a video about “it gets better”, then commit suicide months later. The truth is, I think Lady Gaga has done more harm that good in this area. Coming out to everyone at 14 is not going to improve anything, and here we have some ultra-popular pop star singing about gay empowerment. We have gay people making videos about how it “gets better” later in life, and these kids are at least 10 years away from that. How do you expect any 14 year old to think logically about it getting better at that age? What a knee-jerk-feel-good reaction. We haven’t given them the correct coping mechanisms. I think I took apart the lawn mower and taught myself how to polish paint while listening to Tori Amos. Awkward.
Although, I’ll say this. I have been openly gay on this car forum, and directly after high school I detailed many members’ cars. In all events I was treated well, and it really helped me gain a lot of trust in people.
The sad thing is it shouldn’t matter if a person comes out and says i’m gay at any age. Religion and society make it wrong. All it proves is how ignorant man kind is.
I was hoping you would reply, this is right from the source.
I have always had respect for you, but your car names need help. Like I have said in the past, if you ever need me adjust someones thinking… I will.
I would be gay if it wasnt so much work dealing with your feelings. I guess I am lazy…
I understand what you’re getting at, yes. I don’t think I’ve ever treated you any differently, knowing fully that you are openly gay. I respect you and think you’re a great guy. However, if you showed up to Mighty one night and started having a screw party in your Accord, we’d have an issue. Kissing a girl in between classes and making Lady Gaga dance videos on youtube are two entirely different things. I am the least homophobic person ever, however, if two 14 year old boys are kissing the hallway, I’d take exception to that. (FYI - I don’t find it particularly okay for two heterosexual people to be all over each other in public either).
If you want to be different, be different at home, amongst people who accept you. Not among 4,000,000 people on youtube. Not in front of 800 kids at your school. The whole world doesn’t need to know my sexual orientation and they didn’t need to know Jamey’s.
I think this the elephant in the room. Nobody wants to blame parents for teaching their kids to hate people on sexual orientation because it is hidden under the veil of religion. I don’t know, there are some parents who manage to be religious and not teach their kids these things, so apparently it’s possible to do.
haha. Being gay is great. People have such different expectations for gay people.
These are interesting viewpoints. We really haven’t given young people with very good role models. For example, I recently read a statistic that one out of four 14 year old females confuses Mariah Carrey with Marie Currie. Maybe he’s just taking a cue from some flamboyant pop artist… wrongly.
That somebody thinks youtube is the best place to be creative is interesting, especially at 14. It’s no small wonder to me that kids growing up today aren’t capable of being interested in much other than social media garbage, as that’s what their parents let them do with their time. They were raised by materialistic parents that didn’t equip them to live a happy life.
The problem with your last statement is that you imply that your sexual orientation is anonymous in daily life, but that’s hard to believe. Things like talking about what you did on your weekend at work are pretty simple for heterosexuals, but if a homosexual says they went somewhere with their partner and they’re not certain everyone in the room is receptive to it, it could make one feel uncomfortable. Boo hoo, discomfort. But on a daily or weekly basis this second-guessing becomes tiring. Some people are so fucked up that even discussing going to a movie with your same-sex partner is seen as “flaunting it”. It might be difficult for a teenager to watch others be accepted at school when they know they are not.
You may find some of the points here to be at least something to think aboutlink even though it is related to engineering. I’ll admit, some of their points are rather weak.
Are we just supposed to go to work, be quiet, buy lots of shit, drive home to our suburban house, and be happy? Yikes.
You need to post more and lurk less.
Also, start detailing cars again, I rember you doing a great job and my mazda3 could use some love.
Arn’t we all?
Welcome to America.
Corey,
I agree with what you said here. I wasn’t trying to insinuate that being bullied was the catalyst to everyone’s coming of age. I think the main point I was trying to get at was the bullying sucks in all forms. The bummer thing about it is that it’s part of human nature and it’s going to happen. If you re-read it, maybe I didn’t convey it properly, I said that bullying shapes people for years and years well into adult hood, if they have made it to adult hood.
My honest opinion on the matter is yes, if you can make it through the time of being a teenager, encountering all that there is through adolescents including bullying with the help of good family and friends then you might be able to reach that time when “it gets better”… and the secret here is that it gets better for all people not just gay people. While being bullied for being gay is really no different for being bullied or lynched if you were black or beat up for being muslim in NYC after 9/11 etc. It’s not something you can turn off or change, it just is, so again the main point was the bullying in all forms sucks, no matter who or what you are. It sucks.
ps. I understand and agree with what you were saying about being gay and not knowing if you could even turn to your family. I wasn’t trying to speak to that, just the broader scope of bullying in general thanks for adding to the discussion with your personal experience.
Bullying shaped me into being full of hate. Hate hate hate.
Seriously, how did I get to be such an angry person?
'cause you bleed once a month.
I didn’t bother to read the majority of this thread because I don’t really care.
I will say that I love how the media and all these other idiots are drawing a shitload of attention to it because he was gay. If some straight kid got bullied and decided to kill himself it wouldn’t be nearly as big of a deal.
I have no sympathy for anyone that kills them self over something dumb like that. Quite frankly it’s weak minded, either that or the kid was suffering heavily from mental illness and never reached out for help.
^ you should probably read the thread then. he did reach out for help.