Montana gun legislation enacted

[ILC]

@n20junkie

Common good? get a fuckin clue. You raised your hand to support and defent the constitution of the United States. But your going to sit here and tell me that we can ignore that because of the “common good”.

I explicitly said I don’t have a problem with you owning a gun, and again I’ll repeat I’m not trying to take a gun from you. (I said it in this thread a as joke previously)

I have no problem defending the constitution. You can have your free speech, drink alcohol, own a gun or what ever you want. I support that fact.

Again the constitution was adopted on 1787 so you see nothing about peoples right to smoke pot or not smoke pot, drive a car or not drive a car, or anything about same sex marriages. Hence why there are amendments to adjust to the times. Again I’m not for taking weapons from people, hell I think people should be able to own automatic weapons and explosives when properly educated.

The problem comes in when people are negligent or have malicious intent. So 1 person can ruin it for everyone.

With the changing times people become less in tune with what we would consider decent. They feel they shouldn’t be responsible for their own actions and to plainly put it… We are becoming Dumb as a species (in terms of common sense).

Again I’m not trying to take your weapon from you, as you have shown you are responsible and have sufficient knowledge of its capabilities and ultimately its purpose.

Not everyone has that knowledge or level of responsibility. They should not be able to possess something as powerful as a firearm. IE felons of violent crimes, or even alcoholics (this is a different debate, I’m not getting into it). As for the people that do not have the appropriate knowledge on the subject, you can always educate someone on a simple matter, and this would allow them access to a fire arm.

@n20junkie

If the issues in Great Britain and Australia are debunked, show us the “real” numbers.

This is a moot point as I’m not trying to ban weapons altogether.

@n20junkie

Your little story there was cute, but its the typical liberal mentality. You think that a crowd of people will somehow protect you or the others around you. I have had MANY good friends that are not gun people call me and ask where they can get a gun because something in their life came about, and they feared for their life. Who will protect these people? 911 is great, they will totally fill out the paperwork after the event.

These are not “stories” they were actual events that transpired last night. I saw them all with my two eyes

@n20junkie

Your not getting rid of any guns in this country. WE WILL NOT ALLOW IT. So you can complain about Montana “handing out” guns, but in reality its the voting public, you know those people that all local, state and federal powers are derived from, buying those guns. They see it as they want them, so who the fuck are you to say that they can’t buy them.

I’m not trying to say anyone can’t buy one. Do you feel anyone should be able to drive a motor vehicle? What about the person with 3 DWI’s.

@n20junkie

I’m sorry that your afraid of guns, especially when on the weekends, your supposed to be profecient with one. But thats your personal issue. Maybe its your irrational fear and agenda thats the issue. It seems like there are plenty of gun owners that are plenty law abiding.

I am proficient, I am considered an expert marksman ribbon for my shooting ability. I also have a hunting license, and I was given a shotgun for my 16th birthday. My father has several handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I have fired most of them. I am not afraid of firearms.

@n20junkie

Its great that we have all of these wonderful facts about gun deaths. But one time we had the same facts, but it was for beer, wine and other forms of alchohol. Which to this day, kill more people due to drunk driving accidents, than guns do in the entire world over. But still we can drink, and drive. Course thats illegal, but you can’t stop them, anymore than you can stop humans from killing other humans.

No you can’t stop humans from killing humans. Yes we do stop people from drinking and driving… its called a suspended license and stiffer penalties for driving with a suspended license.

@n20junkie

But I’m just a dumb knuckle dragging redneck. WTF do I know right. I mean come on, you work down town, and at a club, you see it all.

I do see most of what goes on, I see the fights that break out, and again the events I already listed. I saw them all happening.

I’m not calling you a dumb knuckle dragging redneck, I would just say I would have a little bit of a better idea of potential risks and crimes in an urban environment than you. An Urban environment is typically where most crime happens and I’m sure you can agree with this.

AGAIN I’M NOT TAKING YOUR WEAPONS, NOR IS THE GOVERNMENT!!

If I had control of how guns would be purchased, all you need is a simple database, listing a gun owners name, address, methods of contact, with the barrel serial number and gun serial number. Attached to this would be the Guns ballistic fingerprints.

So when bullet is found at the scene of the crime you are contacted first. Sure things happen that can’t be prevented, like your house being robbed. But Is it really that difficult to report your firearms being stolen? No you could simply log on to the internet, list the numbers of the weapons that were stolen. Hell the weapons could even be returned to you after the criminal was busted for stealing your weapon.

Something like this would take a quick background check for felonies or other potential disqualifying factors and you’ll have your gun in a week as oppose to 18 months or what ever the waiting period is now. All the registration could easily be done at the place of purchase.

AGAIN I’m NOT TAKING YOUR WEAPONS. do you have any other questions of my beliefs?

[StrokedZ28]

@n20junkie

You could argue the “living document” line. But we both know that it only applies to the second ammendment. For some reason ever other ammendment escapes that arguement.

The following changes to the Constitution:

1. Voting rights of women.
2. Voting rights of blacks.
3. Voting rights of for 18yo’s.
4. Ending of slavery
5. Term limits of the president.
6. Ability of people to vote for senators.
7. Graduated income tax (not my favorite)
   There are a lot more.

Also no other amendment has the products associated with it changed as much as firearms.

I mean Freedom of Press, Religion, Speech(which has been argued many times) haven’t changed fundamentally.

Yet nearly everything surrounding the creation of the 2nd Amendment has changed. There are no militias but a regular peacetime military, no single shot muskets but full/semi-auto rifles and handguns. There is not the fear of a foreign military invasion that would necessitate a massively armed citizenry. And no matter what anyone says there is no threat of a tyranical regime usurping power in Washington DC.

I’m not saying guns should be banned but the 2nd Amendment is not a blank check to have everyone packing heat either.

If it has not been already posted: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/051009dntexboykilled.dd49cd4.html

These are the people that will end the 2nd Amendment.

[n20junkie]

Ive stated my point. While its fun discussing this issue. Nothing I say will change your opinion, or what you say will change mine. Buts its been fun talkin.

[ILC]

@n20junkie

Ive stated my point. While its fun discussing this issue. Nothing I say will change your opinion, or what you say will change mine. Buts its been fun talkin.

and he admits defeat…

[JEG]

@ILC

and he admits defeat…

no, he knows where he stands on the issue and he knows where you stand on the issue and knows that neither will give or change their mind to the others argument. Not the same as giving up.

[traumadog]

So the ultimate question is what the framers of the Constitution had in mind when creating that document. At that time, the fact that an armed citizenry helped free the country from oppression was foremost in their mind (seen by the large numbers of militiamen used by the Continental Army). As a hedge against a strong external (or internal) force, the militia was seen as a counterbalance.

This argument doesn’t hold as much water anymore - given the advance of technology. If we are saying that the Second Amendment arises from the framers’ vision of the common man protecting himself against major powers (both internal and external), then the logical conclusion is that anyone can own any weapon he seems fit to defend himself - including from his own government. And for that to be effective, then there’s no leg for any gun regulation to stand on - whether that applies to full-auto weapons, up to and including chemical/biological/nuclear weapons. A government owning nukes would have nothing to fear from a citizen owning a hunting rifle (read: Ruby Ridge or Waco).

And much of the Constitution has yet to keep up with the times - an example from elsewhere is the concept of Free Speech. If it truly is unrestricted, then we have no right to restrict any picture or personal story that comes across the internet, as the concept of individual privacy wasn’t mentioned in the Constitution AT ALL.