im just gonna say what i have been saying for like a year.
domestic car companies are not going to be around much longer, they are getting deeper and deeper into problems, and they wont take the necessary steps to keep their heads out of the water.
:tdown: to ford/chevy for not combining forces with their Euro/australian counter-parts for some awesome models of the cars we dont get to enjoy here
Two words - Lean Manufacturing.
Nothing like the best lean manufacturing company in the world starting with a clean slate.
I would love to see their new operations in Texas.
^
Indeed, I find this stuff quite intreguing. Would be interesting to check it out, and see the differences between a GM/Ford plant verus a Toyota plant.
what do you mean? i’m saying that toyota pays as good or better than GM does their current employees because a few people have said they don’t pay as well…
I understand how much GM is getting raped due to retired employees.
As someone who works in one of the local plants, I can go on for pages about what really goes on in these factories. I’ll write more as I find time.
First, I just want to say, don’t assume/believe everything you hear in the media. Every side in this debacle will have their bias’, including myself, but unless you’re “there” you’re only getting he said/she said info.
Now that I have that out, I’ll make a few quick points that have been brought up in this thread.
-As of this month (Nov. '06) GM is the #1 auto manufacturer in China, usurping VW from the top spot. Although, Toyota is still building their presence in China.
-GM currently, and for some time, is utilizing lean manufacturing. Lean has been around for a while, and I as well a lot of other people don’t think it’s a fad, so it’s definately in practice in many manufacturing plants (not just automotive) in the US.
-Everyone blames labor for the problem, because it’s easy, but in reality there are other much bigger and more complicated factors that have put all of US manufacturing into it’s current situation. ie. Asian currency manipulation, US health care system.
Oh, and for those that want to support Toyota as they are creating “American Jobs” - GM and Ford last year downsized in blue-collar jobs twice as many positions as Toyota has in all of North America (~30,000). And despite that, they still directly employ many times more Americans than Toyota does.
Also, retirees do have some impact. As of now, Toyota has less than 600 retirees on its books (and I bet it’s a 401K-based, rather than pension-based one, to boot). This is opposed to the 1.1 million employees, retirees and dependents GM directly covers.
Now are the domestics making investments abroad? Sure. It’s the easiest way back to financial health for them - and they’re still a profit-motivated entity. It’s the same for Toyota, except they’re taking the cynical view that they must seem to be American in order for the next round of products to be accepted (e.g. large trucks). This is the only reason why they built a plant in Texas, and the only reason why they’re in NASCAR. Despite that, Toyota still contributes less to the US economy than GM or Ford.
So yes, let’s support Toyota as it’s an “American” company, rather than just a “good” car company. Just understand that if the domestics fail, we ALL will pay, somehow. No Democratic Congress will allow that many people to go financially unsupported, so our taxes will have to take up the slack.
Regardless of all the internet-arguing, I think we all should realize that America is living on borrowed time. This century will be Asia’s century, and we Americans will help them get there.
Well said.
Actaully I was more in reference to the equipment/assembly differences. Numbers are boring.
Numbers may be boring to some, but you can’t dispute their validity.
I’m guessing assembly procedures would be fairly similar, lean manufacturing is fairly well studied and a big part of lean is “assembly”.
Equipment is a big factor in the equation though. The plant I work in has equipment that runs at only 60% efficiency, giving you 40% downtime.
Not really, that honor would belong to Taiwan… although Samsung in particular does have a large market share in many categories.
Just for the record Japanese companies adopted “lean” in the 1960s.
It was an American who introduced it to them because American companies(unions) were not interested.
We have been playing “catch up” for almost 40 years.
Toyota has been the king of lean that is why they have literally DOUBLE the efficiency of GM.
:word: that’s definitly an interesting piece of info.
i believe those numbers, but is that a surprise to you? of course gm and ford have so many more employees, toyota is growing. gm and for have established there ground and are now starting to lose it. The reason people will support Toyota for american jobs is because instead of laying people off left and right, there hiring more people on. Creating jobs not destroying them. They are obviously doing something right. So in due time when domestic manufacturers are still trying to keep up, toyota will continue to grow and make more jobs for who?.. you guessed it… AMERICANS.
you’re like silent bob. you never say shit, and then pow… 
anywho
i have to agree with this. hyundia, as well as the new suzukis seems like a good bang for the buck deal.
oh, and redrum is right, the newb is a moron