Foriegn > Dumbestic automakers

Since the news broke that the big 3 were in toruble and needed help, many people came out to criticize them and say hoe much they suck and how stoopid they are for running those companies into the ground and how could a company like that lose money unless they executives are complete idiots. The popular argument was, “well look at Toyota, you don’t see them pissing away billions of dollars and their slaes falling off like Detroit. Detroit sucks and Tokyo rules. Americans are dumb, lazy, greedy, short-sighted and ignorant. The Germans and Japaneese are smart, selfless, visionary, revolutionary and efficient.”

Might want to rethink that. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota-projects-first-apf-13892463.html

Toyota Motor Corp. projected its first-ever operating loss since it began such reports, acknowledging Monday that its nine-year stretch of global vehicle-sales growth had stalled.

Crashing auto demand, especially in its key U.S. market, and the profit erosion from a surging yen proved too much for Japan’s top automaker, which had been booming on the success of its fuel-efficient models, incluading the Camry sedan and Prius gas-electric hybrid.
Gloom dominated the annual news conference by Toyota’s president, who in recent years had outlined ambitious expansion plans. This year, Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe even refused to give a worldwide vehicle sales goal for 2009.
“The tough times are hitting us far faster, wider and deeper than expected,” he told reporters at Toyota’s Nagoya office. “This is an unprecedented crisis requiring urgent action.”…

…Toyota expects to lose money on an operating basis of 150 billion yen ($1.66 billion) for the fiscal year ending March 2009. Toyota has never reported an operating loss since it began giving such figures in 1941. The only such loss it has had is an internal calculation for the year ending March 1938, a year after the company was founded.
Operating income reflects a company’s core business performance. Last fiscal year, Toyota had a whopping operating profit of 2.27 trillion yen…

…Tsuyoshi Mochimaru, auto analyst for Barclays Capital in Tokyo, warned worse may be ahead. U.S. auto sales won’t start recovering until toward the end of 2009, and the dollar may lag further, he added.
“The problem is next year,” said Mochimaru. “It’s unmistakable that things are extremely tough for Toyota.”
Watanabe and other executives said production plans and other investment will be on hold, including a new plant in the southern U.S. state of Mississippi and expansion plans in India.
The automaker will focus on hybrids and small cars, and invest in ecological technology to prepare for long-term growth, they said.
Mitsuo Kinoshita, a Toyota executive, said he hoped the results for the fiscal year through March would mark a bottom, partly with the help of dropping material prices. Soaring prices of steel and oil had hurt automakers, but such costs have fallen back in recent months.
But unfavorable currency shifts will slash 200 billion yen ($2.2 billion) from its results for the fiscal year through March, while marketing activities, including measures to deal with sinking sales, trimmed another 570 billion yen ($6.3 billion), according to Toyota…

…Toyota is a relatively old-style Japanese company that offers lifetime employment, and only in recent years has hired and let go of temporary workers to adjust production. It was reviewing overseas jobs but had not reached a decision, it said.
Monday marks the second time Toyota reduced its forecast. Initially, it had projected 1.25 trillion yen ($13.9 billion) in net profit for the year through March 2009, but last month lowered that to 550 billion yen ($6.1 billion). It lowered its fiscal sales forecast to 21.5 trillion yen ($239 billion), down about 18 percent on year.
Toyota’s U.S. vehicles sales plunged by a third on year in November, when overall sales fell to their lowest level in more than 26 years. And there is little hope for a quick fix as consumers hold back big purchases amid a credit crunch, rising unemployment and fears about the future.
“The change that has hit the world economy is of a critical scale that comes once in a hundred years,” Watanabe said.

Like I’ve said before. This is not a big 3 issue, or a mis management issue. This is a global economic downturn that we haven’t seen in 50+ years. We just feel it here first in the US, Japan should have seen this coming if they paid any attention to the Detroit 3 #s, economic indicators, and their own sales figures. I’m surprised they are so surprised this is happening. Maybe when they struggle for financing the hate will then be spread evenly through out the industry.

But Beck said Toyota was doing better then ever???

Maybe he should run GM and Toyota. :gotme:

if everybody suffers, and toyota suffers the least… wouldn’t that still make them right?

this information is false
and beck is right

/thread

That sounds like NYS logic to me.

The whole industry it taking a hit. Why is this surprising? I bet you they aren’t losing nearly as much per car as any of the Big 3.

But the problem also stems from the issue where even if we didn’t hit this recession the “Big 3” have financial issues anyway…

Toyota: -$2bn for the year
Big Three: -$17.5bn to last until spring

Yeah, this economy is obviously going to claim many red numbers, but at the end of the day, the big 3 are still doing much worse than Toyota.

This thread is stupid

Why is it stupid? It goes to show that the big 3 aren’t just losing money because they somehow suck at life and deserve to go out of business because union workers make 13,000 dollars an hour and have personal doctors for everyone on their health insurance plans, and that there really are market factors weighing down their current cashflow.

The point of the thread seems to be that a majortiy of Americans have this perception that the Big 3 are garbage and all else is superior…lots of uninformed consumers and even more stereotypes out there unfortunately.

But anyone with a half of brain understands the economy has something to do with their situation too. This “economic collapse” was just the straw that broke the camels back. There is no doubt that EVERYONE is going to suffer, but The Big 3’s terrible business practices is what is making them suffer more in relation to the other automakers.

I expected better logic from you…

if we both went to vegas to gamble and you lost $20 and I lost $50,000 would you simply say we’re both bad gamblers.

There really are people here who think GM’s cashflow problems are SOLELY because of their cost structure. This emphasizes the fact that the market really is the worst it’s ever been. Couple that with the fact that they took a severe hit in the oil crunch because a higher percentage of their lineup is gas-intensive, and bam, liquidity crunch.

Surely there are internal problems as well, but there is no reason to think that things will stay as bad as they are now for them forever. Particularly with the government now shining a watchful eye over the company and labor union. Hopefully they do a better job than they did with Madoff.

I think their entire business model was based on grabbing low hanging fruit and when that ended they were left with no plan on how to grab rest of the fruit which was higher up. Toyota and other were building a ladder in the meantime.

Exactly…

You say all the analogies im too lazy to think of lol… dey hurtz muh brainz…

I guess if Toyota were really smart they should have predicted the American greed and ignorance finally catching up with them and killing the economy therefore killing the automotive market.

They also should have invented the flyin machine and the teleporter before we knew gas prices were about to skyrocket:picard:

Really? There are so many factors contributing to the economic situation greater than the US automaker collapse… TM are automakers and business people, not psychics!

I must say, that’s a cool analogy. :tup:

I’m amazed that someone is defending the business practices of the Big 3 over other automakers. This is a very simple concept. Everyone is losing money right because NO ONE is buying cars. Once things start to pick up again who do you think is going to be the first ones posting profit gains again? It sure as fuck isn’t going to be GM, I’ll tell you that.

I’m not sure if anyone thinks that their losses are SOLELY dependent on operations costs. That would be stupid. Either way, there are a variety of reasons that GM is in the shitter right now. Want a few? Sure…

  • Operation costs (obv a big factor)
  • Trying to rebuild on such a shitty reputation. They built TERRIBLE cars in the early-late 90’s and they are still suffering from the poor choices made back then.
  • Not anticipating the gas crunch. They kept pumping out SUV’s like they were going out of style and guess what, THEY WERE. but they kept on building them to no avail.