I will keep quoting myself for the next 50 pages.:biglaugh:
READ THIS:
aside from bearing friction, which will negate for the sake of argument:
the treadmill has no way of applying force longitudinally to the plane.
do we all agree? example. Put a skateboard with really good bearings on a treadmill. Make it spin as fast as you want. how hard is it to hold the skatboard in place? not very. the action of the treadmill/wheel scenario cannot impose any force down the axis of the plane… the axis that the engines provide force in. Since there is NO FORCE holding the plane back, the thrust from the engines will cause the plane to move forward. Read that again. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN STOP THE PLANE FROM MOVING FORWARD WITH RESPECT TO A STATIONARY POINT (that means not on the treadmill) IS AN OPPOSING FORCE, THE TREADMILL/WHEEL CANNOT PROVIDE THIS FORCE.
ughhh I dont even feel like explaining it anymore.
conveyor belt will only affect the plane if the wheels are what is getting the power. This problem only means that the wheels are gonna be spinning twice as fast as usual.
EDIT: with respect to newmans response, the only thing that is really gonna apply the force needed to hold the plane back would be the wheels giving the plane the power to move, but they dont. Imagine if u were on a ppl mover like in an airport on a skateboard. U could stand still and the wheels would move under you. Then someone, who isnt on the ppl mover but next to it, grabs u and pushes u forward, ur still gonna move forward. like was quoted over and over. THE CONVEYOR BELT IS IRRELIVANT. If this was a car, then it would be a totally different story, but the wheels, and the driving force of the plane have nothing to do with each other.
i think as long as there is air moving across the planes wings and flaps and ish are int he right position it will lift off…for howl ong it stays in the air is another question…to lazy to ready the whole thread
engineers>*
seriously people, the treadmill can never creat enough of a reaction to keep the plane from movie, the force that would be created by the thrust against the air particles would need and opposite force to keep it from movie, people do a free body diamgram than you can see what I am talking about. damniit: MS paint here I come.
Edit:worse thing ever, i think by just looking at the picture i actually confused myself.
P.s. plane will fly
WTF did anyone read my post. I explained the whole thing already and it’s exactly what Newman just posted.
Goddamnit, you people are making me John Kerry (flip flop, you replublicans know what I mean).
I was putting too much emphasis on the conveyor and wheels as AWDrifter said.
Now, does the plane take off faster if the conveyor belt is moving in the same direction as the plane?
no, the wheels just don’t turn.
hmm, lets talk about catapults on aircraft carriers! Planes are majorly assisted by the catapult, yet once it is up to speed it takes off…
wow…I just read thsi whole thing…im gonna take a nap now. My head hurts. (I never took physics), not saying I dont understand this shit, I just never learnd it in school.
catapult pushes on the chassis of the plane, force acting down center axis. again, treadmill cannot provide force in this direction.
this is true
Some of these people would do great on an IQ test… :lol:
X…
> [i]The conveyor belt is an irrelavent part of the equation.
> It is mentioned just to confuse you.
The jet engines are pushing the mass of the plane forward.
The jet engines don’t give a rat’s ass about the wheels or what they are doing.
[/i]
but the caoveyor belt it relavent it matches the speed of the wheels. the thrust the plane’s engines make move the plane and the wheels so if the wheels are going 1MPH the belt is going 1MPH it is never accelerating forward which does not allow air to go over the wings besides what the wind speed is at the moment; lift is what makes a plane take off. if there is no air flying over/underthe wings at the speed nessecery to take off they it will just be stationary.
take a piece of paper and blow over the top of it, the paper will rise (lift on a wing of a plane) if its just wheels on it and say like a bottle rocket or something and place that on a tredmil set to match the speed of the wheels exactly it will just sit there
that is assuming high friction in the wheels, if wheel have almost no friction(tried spelling negligable but i can’t) it would be dependent of the force created by the thrust, assuming no friction the plane would sith there and not move, and the wheels spin backwards. with thrust applied it would depend on the speed of the aircraft relative to the speed of the conveyer, if the overall velocity is faster than teh speed of the conveyer, spin in foward direction, if overall velocity of the plane is slower than the conveyer the wheels in theory would spin backwards, so in theory you could have an aircraft take off with the wheels spinning backwards
bah i think i am going to kill myself, so tell me how you would get the conveyer to match the speed of the plane, not the speed of the wheels, turn it up the wheels will spin quicker, and the plane would still have the same velocity relative to the earth. the wheels are an idependent entitty of the plane, they contribute no force to the overall movement of the plane.
i was stating that the didn’t move only for the case of the conveyor exactly matching forward velocity of the plane.
and this thread is why we need karma. or an NYSPEED dunce cap.
lol. I understood it as soon as I read it, and I never took physics. its not hard to understand…just don’t ask me to explain it lol.
the wheels are part of the plane, its not floating in the air so the wheels move with the plane. yes they dont drive the plane the thrust does that but while gravity holds the plane down the wheels are connected to the plane which is touching the ground. how does a plane move down a normal runway if the wheels are not moving with the plane???