I poop, a lot.
- When I said I got my money back, I got my money from the credit card company as in a refund for any charges that are fraudulent. Not a refund from a “mistake in the office”.
You say “clay sewer tiles have shifted, and that it is not worth risking your sewer or their equipment to continue. They offer some advice and send you a bill.”
a.) I have used them for two years and they never said anything like that. All they said was the trap about a foot down was broken and I replaced that foot of piping with PVC. Never once did they say that 6 ft down there was an issue. If they knew there was an issue, they would have a quote to get it fixed. Why would I want to continue to place ban-aids on a home issue?
b.) They used to charge me 100 dollars for the maintenance job because I get the job done within every 12 months.
c.) They give me a bill for 125.00 as a maintenance snaking. They couldn’t perform the snake and gave me an idea what the issue was without performing any plumbing investigation like other plumbing companies performed (cameras down the trap, looking from the line from inside the house, etc.). Maybe the plumber that came had better things to do rather than his job.
d.) Why would I pay for a snaking service that wasn’t performed? I would pay for a service call because they came to my house just like paying a mechanic to look at a vehicle before you buy it from a private sale or mom and pop dealership.
e.) The job was inspected after the dig and before the hole was covered with dirt by the Kenmore inspector. Maybe they used 6 in piping because it is a duplex (apartment).
f.) Why would I pay a bill that I have disputed?
g.) You are calling me an inexperience homeowner while your dad hires inexperienced plumbers and you have admitted above that there has been some bad employees in the past.
h.) I understand what you are trying to do here, protect and defend the family business. You are doing a good job.
Yes, I took your advice but why would I pay 2800 for a new trap alone rather than investigating the whole problem. With all the other problems I had, this job could of cost me almost 4k from your dads contracting group. In the end, I would not like to use a middle man to get the job done nor pay for something when the plumber that claims he is a plumber couldn’t perform his trade.
“without performing any plumbing investigation”… it doesn’t take a forensic scientist to determine your trap, X distance away, is shot when the snake cable, X distance long, won’t go any further. ESPECIALLY when every house in your zip code has or will suffer the same symptoms. Someone good in their trade can tell you this without a camera.
Nobody would say the trap is a foot below grade while standing in your basement, at least 6’ below grade.
I am not too worried about his business. I do however worry about it’s reputation though when inexperienced homeowners like you broadcast misinformed opinions.
And thank you for posting his rates for service calls. You’ll find no other plumber can touch 'em, unless they’re simply using the service call to get in your house and up-sell you a complete sewer replacement.
By the end of this thread, you’ll have learned a lot.
There is something about making assumptions on what the issue is and actually performing a complete investigation of the issue.
Just because house A, house B, and house C are all on the same street and having a similar plumbing issue doesn’t mean it has the same issue. Being an engineer, I like to complete a full investigation into an issue and not make assumptions on the root cause even if I encountered the same symptoms before. Making assumptions on zip code and street tells me the plumber hates his job or is to lazy to perform his job. Say all you want about being good in the trade because by taking shortcuts in a trade demonstrates how in-experienced a trade master can become.
That is good you are not worried about the business because you are not working for him at the moment. I post rates and information to inform the public and the community what I have experienced and the cost for the jobs I get done. People don’t need to believe me and if they want to use Mark’s, go ahead.
Here is what I learned:
- I am not an in-experienced home owner.
- I won’t use Marks again for many reasons (inexperienced/bad employees (history), contract any jobs larger than snaking and drain cleaning to contracting plumbers, and can’t be trusted to make payments over a phone).
- My sewer replacement was much cheaper than Mark’s trap replacement.(Even though Mark’s doesn’t perform the job).
- Opinions are opinions, welcome to life and the internet. People can do their own research. If you look at amazon and newegg, people buy products based on customer reviews which are opinions. I hope some people take caution if they plan on using Mark’s for small and large jobs.
I, also an engineer, know that there is a time and a place to investigate. Were you hoping to find that it was a fualty sewer bearing, that needed to be excavated and replaced? there is a finite number of things that could be wrong out there, and knowing the location narrows it down even more. An Engineer should be able to make an educated decision from that alone. Do you scope your fuel tank when the dash says its empty?
Look at the facts. This guy kept your failing sewer flowing over the years for an annual $100 visit. His son gave you some advice to get the best job done, even if its through another company. And you see it fit to surround this guy’s reputation with words like “fraud”?
For the last time, you probably got a high quote because you are an unreasonable skeptic that nobody wants to do business or associate with…
lol have you ever tried a snake-out in a sewer with busted tiles? Sometimes you can get through. Sometimes you can’t. The guy couldn’t and told you your sewer was shot. You didn’t believe him (fair enough) but proceed to accuse him of not being able to perform his trade. How the hell would you know?
So the next guy uses a $3K camera, verifies what the first one told you - and you refuse to pay the first guy who gave you an accurate diagnosis but are more than willing to pay the second guy because he showed you a log in color? 
:cky:
---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------
http://www.nyspeed.com/showthread.php?161619-DIY-Basement-Renovation-Project-Adding-Bedroom-and-Bath
This guy thinks breakstuff kinda knows what he’s talking about. Of course, LAFENGAS is known for being a pretty hands-off guy :highfive:
Let me guess, you didn’t even affor Mark’s the chance to resolve the issue. Time and time again, you take it upon yourself to escelate issues that aren’t that complicated.
One question that I have is did any of these guys have their buttcracks hanging out, that would be a true hard working plumber. I’m not going to take sides but the price of a service call for marks looks like the cheapest one, my sisters bf works for mr. Plumber and they charge wayyyy more then that.
Why would I want to deal with them when I didn’t authorize the payment. Credit Card companies are their to assist their customers when issues arise, especially with fraudulent charges.
---------- Post added at 02:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 AM ----------
So another word for educated decision is an educated guess. I prefer educated answers 
Yes, he did service over the years and it is recommended to get the service done every 1 to 2 years, especially if it is an apartment/duplex. With the two years of him doing the job (not your father), I only got a quote when they couldn’t do the job. If they knew it was collapsing to begin with and communicated it to me and give me a quote years ago, I would have it fixed years ago.
I got a high quote because it seems Mark has to many plumbers doing minor jobs and the company needs to collect money off big jobs that their snaking can’t perform. Marks plumbing = Stockmohr because they hire contractors to do their jobs and act as the middle man, in which every middle man needs money to push some paper work around.
If it is not fraud, then the person performing the charges needs a refresher on how to use billing applications.
---------- Post added at 02:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 AM ----------
Again, I am not paying for the service of snaking when it couldn’t be performed. I said I would pay for a service call. Why would I pay for a snaking service if it wasn’t performed?
Never once did Mark do the work, Mark’s cronies did the work and some no longer work their (again: he has had bad employees). I think Mark should do all work. I am sure the first person that snaked my drain both times was still hired, he would of done a complete job and inform me of the issue at that moment. I still have the receipt where he said the issue was that the trap a foot down was uneven and recommended to get it fixed, never was the trap collapsing.
In conclusion, I am an in-experienced homeowner for hiring in-experienced plumbers that work for an organization that makes fraudulent charges that play it off as a billing mistake.
---------- Post added at 02:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 AM ----------
No cracks, I guess it wasn’t a hard working plumber… :tdown:
Yes, Mr. Plumber was more expensive than Mark’s
Rainbow was cheaper than Mark’s and I know a few people that have used them and recommended their services. :tup:
Also, I have received a few PM’s for better plumbers to use in the future.
If you need to snake a sewer annually, your sewer is not in good working order. Mark’s was able to keep it flowing for years, at a one year interval. That’s not the M.O. of a bad plumber.
The first time it was bad enough that they couldn’t get the snake through, you jumped to the conclusion that this worker couldn’t do his job. Whether the sewer is collapsing, blocked, shifted or otherwise, if a 4” cutter will not go through, you will need to excavate no matter what. 90% of the time video inspection equipment is a sales tool more than a diagnostic. How do you thing guys (like my father and I) diagnosed problems before this technology was available? Knowledge, experience, and a few clues from the sewer machine. The camera is a very useful tool for locating the line for the actual digging, but there has never once been a time where I found a problem underground on a camera that could be fixed without excavating…. there aren’t as many variables as you think, unless you, an engineer, are considering the species of tree root growing in your lines or the geographic origin of the clay used to make your cracked sewer tile.:scratch:
Alas, some other contractor got through, most likely with a very small cutter or none at all, and was able to drain it enough to show you an image of a bad sewer, as you were previously told.
So is this where you decided to make your stand against Mark’s? Obviously you can’t pay two companies for giving you THE SAME diagnosis, right?
Do you recall this aggressive phone call?
You said you’d discuss an amount… and hung up. Do you see how you are the one that caused the breakdown yet? Do you see how the trust issues in this customer-company relationship are mostly, if not entirely your doing?
The guys gave you great service at a very reasonable rate for years, as stated by other members, and you are ignorant enough to come on here and shout “fraud” “inexperienced” “cronies” and the like over a billing mistake – which again you jumped to the conclusion that this had to be a scam. It wasn’t. I can’t blame you for putting a stop to the payment, but you cannot say you HAD to go this route either. If he double billed you, you would have gotten your money back, had you had asked. His company has not lasted this long by ripping off every customer. Truth is, he doesn’t, but once in a while a difficult, ignorant, skeptical customer can make a real mess of things.
ugg So Marks will over charge because they don’t like a person? If they make a billing mistake the customer has to catch it and ask to get money back? That’s real shady shit!
Plumbing from the house to the street is pretty strait forward. If it cant be snaked then either the pipe is collapsed or is blocked. Either way the pipe will have to be dug up to repair the issue. Based on how far the snake goes the plumber will have a good idea of where the issue is to start digging. Any good plumber can figure that out with out fancy equipment.
^ I think you will find many businesses have an “asshole rate”. It helps to compensate for money spent on anger management counseling and ulcer medication copays. Unfortunately it is difficult to ever charge enough.
The overcharge was accidental, and admitedly untimely considering the OP disputed the service call (on which a plumber diagnosed the problem↑)
The estimate for the sewer repair might have been higher considering the OP owed a balance for said service call.
I’m not going to explain anymore.
Bankers, lawyers, and engineers are the worst to do work for.
“God help us. We’re in the hands of engineers.” Ian Malcom, Jurassic Park
I made two phone calls,
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Mark called me and left me a VM, I called right back and Mark was no where to be found. I talked to the secretary and she asked if I received a bill. I told her I received a bill but wasn’t going to pay a bill that wasn’t performed. The snaking job couldn’t be performed and I wasn’t going to pay it. I said if you want something, I will agree to a service call bill. The secretary said ok. (Never ack what she was planing to do)
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A few days later, I received the 65 dollar bill, called them up and paid it. Yes, I might have been moody but if they wanted to lose a customer over 65 dollars when I was paying 100+ dollars a year and was still planning to get yearly maintenance jobs, then sure.
---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 PM ----------
The original bill was 2800 dollars minus the 125 dollar snaking fee just to replace the trap - new sewer line from the house to the street was needed in the end.
R.I.C quoted me 1400 just for the trap but said there was a good chance they will need to replace more piping.
In the end, I am happy I got rid of all the clay piping for 2200
---------- Post added at 11:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 PM ----------
Dude, the first few posts in this thread, I stated how I didn’t like the job of the plumber and you apologized because you knew there has been a bad history of employees that report to your dad. Again, if your dad did the work to begin with, all this shit wouldn’t have happened. He couldn’t even talk to me on the phone when I called him back.
In the end, your dad should have come to my house and look at the issue, instead of the guy calling your dad for a trap replacement. I am pretty sure your dad would say that more work would needed to be done, besides the trap.
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I am happy that people are still using Mark’s. It just sucks that I couldn’t get consistent great service from them (2 out of 3 were good and all it takes is 1 bad service). I called Mark’s first and I wish I could have received better customer service… especially if the job would be contracted out, your dad should have verified everything before giving the job amount from over the phone to the plumber, which was then placed on paper. If I used Mark’s, I would have has received a larger bill in the end and I don’t like accepting work from over the phone. The work was being contracted out and Mark as the owner should have gave me the quote over the phone or in person when he confirmed what work was needed to be done. But this makes me look like I am an inexperienced home owner because I wasn’t happy with the service or customer service and I complained and shared my story on the internet but in the end, I would have paid much more and I would have been a sucker. Again, I must be an inexperienced home owner because I did my homework and went with the best person to do the job.
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If a billing mistake was made and regardless of me contacting the credit card company, it would have been nice to have received a phone call admitting a mistake (as in providing good customer service).
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Seems like your the middle man, if you told your dad everything since this thread started and a customer is upset with the service provided and wanted to keep a customer, maybe he should have called me back.
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Yes, I am the consumer and I have def. experienced multiple times that the customer service was shitty and I have a right to have a temper when making a phone call over petty stuff.
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Good customer service was from R.I.C - performed a thorough investigation, owner called me personally and provided me the info, owner gave me the quote personally, owner was on site before, during, and after job. A few days after the job was done, I called RIC and left a VM for good customer service.
Do you own this duplex or rent it?
He rents it. Its the newest thing where tenants take care of all maintenance costs on the property.
I own it