(As do pickups)
40mph offset barrier crash
Which would you rather be in
Yeah but I don’t see these guys slowing down because of it … just the opposite they think they are invincible and happily take curves at a tipworthy 130+ …
Propaganda!
Engineers are continually designing to overcome these items. Keep in mind that a truck weighs about twice what a car does, and probably three times what a Mini does. Inertia???
Sled testing is a science that has greatly improved the safety and quality of vehicles on the road. However the F150 has always suffered from poor frontal impact with the exception of their new model.
Just look at the Tundra. Fulll size truck with great frontal impact characteristics.
And the full size Dodge.
And finally the revised 2004 F150 supercab
Don’t take this the wrong way, I am not by any means defending Ford, just the misconception that ll fullsize trucks are dangerous or not designed to meet safety regulations which the previous post seems to depicts.
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they still suck
wow, good job Daddy Rim on giving a good argument 
Although mini is amazing in crash tests, I still think if your mini crashes into one of those f150’s you’re toast because of the height and weight difference.
just incase anyone was wondering, if a mini was to crash head on with a f-150, at 40mph, the ford would continue moving at 15mph with the mini stuck to the front.
Note: this is obviously ignoring the fact that the mini’s wheels might lock up or any other occurances during a crash.
Really… :doubt: So you know this because your an expert in physics?
Good dynamic analysis!
It should also be noted that the damage in the photo to the Mini would be substantially greater because two objects would both be traveling at 40mph. I’ve been searching for 240 crash photo’s to no avail. All that is available is the crash data, which isn’t all that bad.
For my family, I would choose a full size truck over any other vehicle (excluding all pre 2004 F150-250) for crash safety. For speed and fun of course a sports car such as our beloved 240’s are great!
If we want to argue that people who drive larger vehicles such as pickups and full size sport’utes are more dangerous on the road due to their false sense of security, I would agree! How many times have we all been passed on the highway by a soccer mom in her Durango or Suburban? Countless times I’ve been behind a vehicle in my 240 or 280 and thought just how messed up I would be if we were to make contact.
However another strong argument of car vs. SUV is the crash avoidance capability of sports cars etc vs. SUV’s and pickups. A full size product is more apt to roll in a harsh avoidance maneuver where as a car will have a greater chance at recovery. Simple physics.
Needless to say there are countless arguments which can justify owning either type of vehicle. The only solution would be to make every vehicle identical of one consolidated perfect design and that will thankfully never happen, thus the argument of car vs. SUV/truck will continue on and on…
Really… :doubt: So you know this because your an expert in physics?[/quote]
It would ignore friction and impact absorption but the basics are pretty close.
I think trucks suck because they are slowly turning them into Luxary Family sized vehicles totally ignoring the reasons we had trucks before. It’s all about the trucks with smaller cabins than a 240 has. Those have a purpose.
Really… :doubt: So you know this because your an expert in physics?[/quote]
hahaha, not saying that i am, though i am studying mechanical engineering in university (too much physics). Simple grade 12, momentum calculations give you that result that i did in my head real quick.
i’m not going to research the average coefficent of friction for average tires on cement, and the absorption factor of each models front end. so lets say at the moment of collision the ford will be moving with the mini on the front at 12mph +/- 3mph.
hahahaha :thumright:
It’s quite true that luxury is making its way into the truck industry, but it’s legislation and sales that are driving them that way. Just look at how much lower trucks are now than they were in the late 80’s early 90’s! Crash data made this happen as well as new government regulations. And since trucks such as the F150 are industry sales leaders, of course manufacturers are going to do whatever they can to add luxury incentives to keep those sales as high as possible.
But all car markets are changing. We no longer have an array of available ‘sports cars’ and purpose built chassis’ as we once did. This is what almost killed Nissan to begin with in the 90’s.
But I do agree, a truck just isn’t a truck anymore unless you add a 6" lift and other upgrades, although their drivetrains are far superior to what they once were as far as NVH and reliability goes. Despite their luxurious nature, full size market vehicles can still take great abuse!
That’s my point newbs.
Everyone thinks if everyone gets a big truck we will be more safe, but instead they just drive even faster and create MORE momentum.
So all these people buying big SUVs for safety are doing so at the expense of crushing up poor little reasonable cars that are much more suited for daily driving.
If everyone had a small well designed car like the mini there, the world would be a safer place to drive 
As for the momentum analysis, that would only be true if both cars had rubber fronts and didn’t do any damage to each other. Since so much energy will be absorbed by the cars it’s more likely they would both come to a stop after smashing at 40mph then continue on at 15mph.
As for propaganda? Have you looked at a ford board ever? We have to fight back
Although now Ford has that beautiful GT … droooool
Crumple Zones creat impulse, (Force over time), but is directly proportional with the change of momentum. The formula i used for momentum assumes that there is a crumple zone and that the cars do not bounce off each other. (M1V1 + M2V2 = (M1 + M2)*V’) assuming that they both have the same crumple zone time (the time it takes for the zone to crumple a certain value say 1 foot), or similar crumple times, it will not effect the chenge in overall momentum. But if the crumple zones are quite different which i doubt, then overall the change in momentum will be different for both the mini and the f 150.
oh and just because the f-150 crumpled more doesn’t mean that it has a higher crumple impulse, cause if it crumpled that much in 0.01 seconds is a big difference with respect to 0.005 sec. all you get is the displacement not the time it took.
just imagine a mini and a f-150 hitting head on at 40mph without brakes being applied, there is no way they would just stop.
That’s my point newbs.
I’m more apt to beleive that its a minority of pickup / SUV owners (since there are so many) that drive carelessly due to their vehicle size. Nonetheless they do exist, as do many careless sport compact owners! You can look at it either way.
As for being a newb… I guess dealing with FMVSS on a daily basis doesn’t qualify… :roll:
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and yes Ford owners will trash import owners and vice versa, although I admit this forums is rather tame. Why fight back and resort to the same childs play?
Regardless ladies and gents, the opinions and comments can swing either way and carry this thread on for days…
I’m taking University physics as well … that formula does not assume a crumple zone?? 15mph would assume no energy was used to deform those vehicles. And the formula also assumes the cars would stick together … something I’ve never seen crashed cars do. (By rubber bumpers I just meant they would absorb all energy then return it).
OK OK you win I got owned 
I’m just mad about 2 recent experiences with real assholes in SUVs on the 403.
Although your right I’ll stop being a newb myself … there was a crazy dumb kid on the 401 in a little mazda5 yesterday that could have easily destroyed himself and others.
I still like that picture though 
I took the offending comment out of my earlier post, I didn’t say what I meant to say. Odviously the F150 there has created a bigger ‘crumple impulse’ because it had more momentum to stop, doesn’t matter how long it took. 40mph ^ 2 * (Weight)
I meant to say it looks like the F-150 is more poorly designed in regards to it’s crumple zones, and in a head on crash between the two (neglecting the height difference) it seems the truck might be worse off (since they have the exact same amount of energy to disperse).
i see what your saying, yes they would not stick together but because the ford will be pushing the mini (due to the fact that it has much more momentum) the velocities of the cars afterwards would be similar if not the same, so that forumla is more accurate than the other (not to mention the missing variables). I also used that forumla because the crumple zones will absorb alot of the energy (not momentum) so that the overall force pushing against each car (newtons 2nd law) would be much less, so the seperation speed of the two cars would be smaller, so the forumla would apply … hmm this is hard to explain, do you see where i’m coming from?
heres an example to help explain my point:
if you throw 2 eggs at each other (same speed) one having twice as much mass, they would collide then smash but then not bounce back, though in the air the eggs will move in one direction as a whole.
BUT,
if i had two superballs (bouncy balls) one having the same mass as egg 1 and the other as egg2, they would collide but bounce, the smaller one would bouce directly back while the other would just fall to the ground.
Therefore:
the crumple zones (or egg shells cracking) abosorb the energy that would be converted from potential to kinetic for the speration of the two cars, what each car is pushing on each other, but in no way effect the over momentum of the system.
But i agree with you, there are alot of a-holes on the highways in there SUV’s, driving without caution.
i kinda see what you are saying, the crumple zone seems poorly designed, unless it needs to crumple that much to pass a crumple standard ?¿? but the ford has more kinetic energy than the mini, that it would give to the mini upon impact, while the mini would have less to give to the ford.
Except that since they deform, it’s not as simple as one ‘giving’ energy to the other. Newton’s 2nd law helps to explain that even though the truck is heavier every bit it pushes against the mini, the mini will push back just as hard (until they seperate or the energy is dissipated). Do you think if you threw two eggs at each other (even if one weighed twice as much) they would go anywhere after they hit? I think the shells would just fall to the ground, it would take a lot of energy to break the shell and send the liquids flying.
Anyway since there is really no way to predict what will happen (in terms of post-crash velocities), way too many variables, I don’t think it’s that important anyway.
My main complaint with SUVs is that a lot of them don’t seem to be very people-friendly. They seem to think they don’t have to make room for others on the road. It’s also a proven fact that perched up that high you’re much more likely to look down at the road instead of up at the horizon where you are supposed to (not to meantion they cut down my view like crazy … why? So they can go offroading on the way to the grocery store?)
I guess I just think of them as a bit of an ‘asshole choice’ for people that really don’t need them. Then again … where the hell are you going to use the power and handling available on a Porsche GT ??
I say … GO paris! They are trying to ban them
I’m sure there will be great difficulty placing a ban on such a thing when the public loves them and are willing to pay outrageous prices to even import them.
A agree with you Sven that most people wil not ever use the off-road capabilities of an SUV. For that very reason they have been becoming lower and more luxurious. Just look at how many former body-on-frame designs are now unibody construction. For that matter look at the climbing sales of cross-overs. These vehicles are designed on mini-van platforms, given AWD, and marketed towards soccer moms that might have to climb over a mound of dirt in a construction zone on the way to soccer practice.
“PFEW!!! Good thing we had AWD Mom or else we would’ve been late!”
In regards to the F150, when Ford designed the previous generation, they placed most of their emphasis on NVH, in fact, most of the design $$ went towards NVH making it a smooth drivetrain and miniizing any harshness from suspension to seat adjusters. Their new standards have actually set the tone for all other car manufacturers (save europeens) with regards to NVH and sound quality. But they missed the boat on their crumple zone design on the F150.
By the way, and I’m sure your all aware (just didn’t see it in any of your calcs) each crumple zone is designed to absorb a certain amount of impact energy. This information is available to the public by some manufacturers if your able to find the right contact. You have to work for it a little.
What I’m surprised about here is that no one brought up the GMC Sunoma. It has an even worse track record with crash testing is receives only a 2** rating. Very poor by todays standards, and much worse than the F150.