Okay, that does answer a lot to be honest. There is a fair bit of sketchy dealerships out there I must admit but this stigma of the entire car industry being “shady” is overdone. This whole thing about best price is also overboard as people will literally shop 10 dealerships to save $100-$500. If your time is worthless and experience means nothing than go for it. When I’m purchasing a substantial item, +20k, I would like to enjoy the process.
Yes, dealerships make money on a lot of ends as well like you mentioned. Those are all profit due to risk though like mentioned above with trade-ins and financing. My experience is strictly from new car dealerships and currently getting my Business Degree in automotive management. For this reason, my view might be different than other scenario’s of course.
As for the interest rates in NY you an pay as much as 24.9% and the dealer is allowed to mark up the buy rate 2%. Unfortunately there is so much useless junk in this thread it makes me sick, and fyi the largest commission i have ever made was less than $600 and that was a 1 hour deal and one of the happiest/best customers i have ever had, that has sent me 6 referrals over the years! The people i sell under invoice or just get any type of amazing deal are still never happy.
Another instance is how some customers will be on the lot for 10min and not be waited on then come in and ask for a manager to complain, when customer #2 is out there you walk up say “hello, welcome to XYZ motors” and they respond with “I have only been here 10 min I’ll find you if i need help”. Cant win them all. But i have been selling now for 5 yrs and have 8-10 referrals or return customers per month so i guess i must really giving it to my customers raw dog in the butt lol. I would rather give all my customers a real HONEST/FAIR deal and have them bring me more business instead of raping them once and never seeing them again. I have absolutely no issue showing the invoice/holdback/carfax on every deal i right up. When i show the customer that NY makes more on tax than the dealership does it kind of puts things in perspective for them.
Having worked at, or having ties (close friends who work at) to 4 major dealerships in the NYC area, I can tell you that Joe, and many others are 100% correct. They are trying to make the largest profit margin possible, while being as shady as possible, without getting caught. The turnover rate at dealerships is hysterical right now, just because if someone gets caught, they just fire them and claim ignorance. It’s not rare, it’s a twice a month ritual. I can’t tell you how many times I was told to “Just CPO it and we’ll deal with it later” and I refused and was called into an office and told I “had to sign the paperwork” and told them to go find another fool to do it, because I wouldn’t. They only care if it looks right on paper, not if the vehicle actually is correct.
Fair enough… If a dealer is trying to be legit the sketchy ones probably ruin it for them too, because if all you’ve ever seen is the “Come at them with the ridiculously high offer to start” method, even a halfway decent initial price is going to result in you trying to lowball them because that’s what you’re used to. If the price is good, we get suspicious of the financing or payments or trade, because most dealership experiences are like a murder mystery of “How are they trying to fuck me?” I found my cousin a great deal online on a new car once by shopping a few different places, price was great and trade was fair, all she had to do was go in and sign the papers (I couldn’t make it that day), and she got stuck with an 84 month subprime loan to get a lower payment. I wanted to pistol whip her.
I would like to see a dealer try the Wal Mart business model though, just to see if it takes off. Transparent $500-1000 over true cost pricing, salesmen’s commission is flat on a per-car basis, try to make money on volume and extras, like trades and financing.
We actually tried this a few years back, we received a $200 flat for every car we sold which is great for new cars as sad as that is lol. But customers still wanted to negotiate even though the prices were fair and they felt like they had no control. Hell even Saturn did this and look where they ended up
We actually tried this a few years back, we received a $200 flat for every car we sold which is great for new cars as sad as that is lol. But customers still wanted to negotiate even though the prices were fair and they felt like they had no control. Hell even Saturn did this and look where they ended up
Saturn actually had a good thing going saleswise, they made chick cars and they knew that’s what their target demographic wanted. They just didn’t have enough good cars to keep around in the new GM.
LoL a buddy of mine down here had a 2005 GTO that he used as a drag car. He pulled out the drive train and swapped in a 4.8L/4l60e combo with 150K miles and put a dash in that was 5K miles and CarMAX gave him a TON for the car. They had the car sitting out on the lot and I’m guessing they sold it that way to someone.
Man this is a great tool for those of us that work in sales. (i think saxon is spot on in everything he says) probably is very successful.
I have been selling cars for awhile and for the most part i have a great time doing it. Here are some things i have learned in the business and some of my experiences. These are not complaints or anything like that, as i love my job and work in a much different way than most people.
It is very difficult to actually screw people anymore because there are too many systems of checks and balances. If i make you upsidedown on your trade and also make gross on the front end of the deal, most often the bank will not finance more than 110% of the vehicles actual value. So even if by chance a salesman really doops someone into buying something for too much eventually the bank will make us lower the price.
Yes the finance department can add 2% to the loan. I don’t like this aspect of the business. It can simply be objected by saying " i really don’t feel comfortable with that rate. Maybe if it was 2 percent lower i would do it" They are real people and understand your situation as the customer. Because interest rate affects your payment by about 15 dollars per point. It gets out of control quick.
Trades are very difficult to deal with. Most people do not want to come right out and say what they want for the trade. Values on vehicles change daily based on the economy. My sales manager uses and app on his phone that scans the VIN and what manheim auctions and others are selling the car for. I would think that you could also do the same and then know what to expect. If you want more than what it’s worth we just take it off the markup on the other car. (no big secret)
Not all sales people are trying to "screw you, because as i said before the risk doesn’t outweigh the benefit. We can only gross so much before the bank retracts it. And if i have to lower the price when you come to sign up, i will look like a jackass. Also as sales people WE DO NOT MAKE THE PRICES, I CANNOT CHANGE THE PRICE AND RAISE IT so most customers are shopping the price online. If they come in and ask about the car we assume that the customer thinks the price is relatively fair. and as another salesperson said this business is REFERRALS, REFERRALS, REFERRALS!!! We never know if your family or friends buy a few cars a month and if they do and i do a good job you will send them back to me.
Some of you have definitly caught on to some things, about forwarding emails and such from dealer to dealer, but i agree some people over do it. Once you get an idea of the numbers at 2 or 3 places, thats good enough, we all own the cars for the same money and your trade is worth about the same everywhere. Just the same as i am taught to ask for the sale, it helps if the consumer offers the deal they would like to pay, that way i can try and get it to you.
For the most part we don’t need to really screw anyone. I very rarely have access to how much i own a car for on the lot. All i do is give the price and offer you an amount for your trade. If you don’t like it, just counteroffer (no big deal) if i can’t meet someone in the middle i usually ask if they could sell it outright for the amount they want to get on trade? Keep in mind when you trade in a car you get more on the tax savings then if you sell it on your own and use the money as a down payment. Down payments are deducted after tax, whereas trades are figured in before tax.
A lot of people here in Raleigh use Carmax and many report an overall good experience. My future brother-in-law bought a G35 there and never has issues with it. From what I have seen on the lot, the cars don’t appear to be too beat. The cars are definitely a little more pricey than other dealerships and private party, though.
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I think in some cases the salesman is just ignorant. They don’t get any REAL authority in selling cars. They are just the middle-man for you and the sales manager.
They’re job is more along the lines of convincing you that you should buy one of the cars on their lot.
Im really surprises that most of you seem to think that its the dealers responsibility to sell you the car for as cheap as possible… a companies main objective is always to make the most money possible, its your job to look out for your own interests.
Have any of you bought something off of crags list? Generally you list the item for more than you actually expect to get, in anticipation of the buyer trying to talk you down, then you both together decide on a price that makes you both happy. Its the same with cars… “shady” dealerships are ones that sell you something different than what you thought you were buying, or sell you a car they know has something wrong with it, not one who makes a lot of money on the sale.
The dealership I got my car from claimed the prices were non negotiable, and that the trade ins were also non negotiable, but they negotiated on both before the end, even though it took days of pushing before they would budge. That I find “shady” because they lied about it.
I think in some cases the salesman is just ignorant. They don’t get any REAL authority in selling cars. They are just the middle-man for you and the sales manager.
They’re job is more along the lines of convincing you that you should buy one of the cars on their lot.[/QUOTE]
This is so true, most often as a sales person we do not have any type of authority. The deal we give out is situational to the day, time, month, etc. etc. Some days the managers won’t go below 1500 over invoice, and other days they will sell it for invoice or less. It all depends on the heat that the DEALER is putting on the GSM and the shit rolls down hill. The only way we get any type of authority is if it is a family member, friend, or something like that in which case my dealership has a set price for all the cars on the lot.
All i do as a sales person is know my product
be personable and respectful
listen to the needs of my customers and show them what they want to see.
You catch more bees with honey than vinegar, and in sales, the money just comes as you go i just take what comes to me.
I play dumb at the desk, i never ask what we own a car for if possible, or what the ACV on the trade is. The less i know the better.
Be honest, once a salesperson lies they have to continue to lie.
I treat my job the same way i treat my life. I always look at my customer and try to relate to them. If its a 90 year old lady i think how would i want another salesperson to treat my grandma, if its a girl in her 20’s then how would i want a salesperson to treat my wife, and so on. Perception is key. If you have a positive attitude and are honest then i really have nothing else to worry about.
This is so true, most often as a sales person we do not have any type of authority. The deal we give out is situational to the day, time, month, etc. etc. Some days the managers won’t go below 1500 over invoice, and other days they will sell it for invoice or less. It all depends on the heat that the DEALER is putting on the GSM and the shit rolls down hill. The only way we get any type of authority is if it is a family member, friend, or something like that in which case my dealership has a set price for all the cars on the lot.
All i do as a sales person is know my product
be personable and respectful
listen to the needs of my customers and show them what they want to see.
You catch more bees with honey than vinegar, and in sales, the money just comes as you go i just take what comes to me.
I play dumb at the desk, i never ask what we own a car for if possible, or what the ACV on the trade is. The less i know the better.
Be honest, once a salesperson lies they have to continue to lie.
I treat my job the same way i treat my life. I always look at my customer and try to relate to them. If its a 90 year old lady i think how would i want another salesperson to treat my grandma, if its a girl in her 20’s then how would i want a salesperson to treat my wife, and so on. Perception is key. If you have a positive attitude and are honest then i really have nothing else to worry about.
Even though I’m not in the business at all… I know this to be a fact. One of my good buddies was a GSM/Finance Manager at West Hurr; and now is doing consulting for dealerships with issues; he’s traveling all over the place “cleaning up” dealerships that are f’d up.
this is why I still got my car from them. I figured they normally are non negotiable, and I may have only gotten them to negotiate because I was a pain in the butt.
